matesny

    Could someone logically explain why there is a difference between TMobile Customers who allow TMobile to check their credit reports and those who do not?

    TMobile puts them in different service categories. There are some ridiculous restrictions on No Credit Check customer account services. It is also true that no credit check customers are put on a lower signal queue, same bucket as metroPCS customers in terms of signal quality. Don't tell me this is a lie because I verified this information at 3 different TMobile Stores.

    I am still searching human logic behind the restriction on TMobile no credit check accounts NOT being able to add a line to their TMobile Family Plans before completing 3 months of service.

    No Credit Check customers are treated like they are not valued or trusted at all.

    EIP is the new name for 2-year wireless contract.

    Un-Carrier now makes more sense.

      All replies

      • gramps28

        Re: Credit Check vs No Credit Check

        The no credit check plans are basically prepaid plans.

         

        SCNC Family

         

        It looks like the max number of lines in a family plan is 5 and if go look at the

        fine print it states nothing about having to wait 3 months to add a line. So I don't know

        where the reps are getting this info.

         

        Since this is considered a prepaid plan more than likely customer service call centers

        are outsourced compared to the post paid credit check plans which uses call

        centers in the US.

          • miket

            Re: Credit Check vs No Credit Check

            My take is:

            1.  No credit check plans do get bills like regular (POSTpaid) plans.

            2.  They do NOT get all the benefits of regular plans like intl roaming.  (Are they limited as to domestic roaming?)

            3.  Even regular plans are limited as to the number of lines they can get - depending on their credit AND length of time they've been a customer.

          • stevetjr

            Re: Credit Check vs No Credit Check

            matesny wrote:

             

            Could someone logically explain why there is a difference between T-Mobile Customers who allow T-Mobile to check their credit reports and those who do not?

             

            There is a difference for a number of reasons, with the credit check plan you are allowed to add features, apps or make international calls and have them billed to your account (post paid). In order to do this they want to check your credit like any company would to extend you what is essentially credit by letting you make the charge and pay it later. This is no different than any other carrier's prepaid vs postpaid service and there have been articles published that T-Mobile has the more lenient credit requirements and also offer the ability that if you do have bad credit to with T-Mobile anyway establish good credit that after 12 months of on-time payments you will have "good" credit with T-mobile and can take advantage of no deposits and etc. which no other carrier does.

             

            TMobile puts them in different service categories. There are some ridiculous restrictions on No Credit Check customer account services. It is also true that no credit check customers are put on a lower signal queue, same bucket as metroPCS customers in terms of signal quality. Don't tell me this is a lie because I verified this information at 3 different TMobile Stores.

             

            They are not in a "quote" lower signal bucket per se as the signal doesn't change but rather it is priority of the traffic and it only happens when the network/cell tower is overloaded and even the post paid customers have priority settings within their group based on how much data as a percentage has already been used.  So everyone even post paid have network management settings and while yes post paid is above Metro and Pre-paid they still have network management applied to them also.  If you look at it from a business stand point, post paid/credit check customers tend to stay with a carrier for longer periods of time (even with contracts not existing) versus pre-paid and I am not making judgements its just the reality and if you look when carriers report their earnings even wall street looks harder at the number of post-paid additions more than the pre-paid additions. Never the less T-Mobile nor Metro hide this fact as it is in both of their terms of service agreements.

             

            Here is Metros;

             

            In addition, under MetroPCS’s Terms and Conditions, at times and in areas of network contention, we give data of T-Mobile-branded customers precedence over data of non-T-Mobile-branded customers. Giving T-Mobile data precedence occurs only on a content-agnostic basis, and its effect should be noticed rarely and temporarily, if at all.

             

            T-Mobile's;

             

            Network Management: Service may be slowed, suspended, terminated, or restricted for misuse, abnormal use, interference with our network or ability to provide quality service to other users, or significant roaming.


            I am still searching human logic behind the restriction on T-Mobile no credit check accounts NOT being able to add a line to their T-Mobile Family Plans before completing 3 months of service.

             

            Not sure why this would be if you are prepaying for the line but maybe a T-Force can look into this one.

             

             

            No Credit Check customers are treated like they are not valued or trusted at all.

             

            It is not "lack of trust" it is just due diligence as any company that extends payment of some kind needs to no the credit history.  If they just let anyone on post-paid without a credit check it is reality that their bad receivables and losses would go up significantly which would force them to raise prices on everyone. As mentioned above they are the only carrier that will give you the opportunity to establish "good" credit with them after 12 months which no one else in the industry does.

             

            EIP is the new name for 2-year wireless contract.

            Un-Carrier now makes more sense.

             

            EIP is a two-year contract yes, but will have to disagree with the it is "wireless" contract since you have the option to BYOP which the other carriers even if you bring your own phone will make you sign a 2 year contract for "service" and/or charge you the rate for service that is the same as if you got a phone or not.  It is about choice and if you don't want to sign an EIP then you are more than welcome to BYOP sign up for a post paid account and get service without a contract. Un-Carrier is more than just about "no contract", it is a lot more like free music streaming, free international, Wi-Fi calling, Data-Stash (rollover) etc.  Also unlike the other carriers when T-Mobile launches a new Un-Carrier feature it automatically applies to all existing customers versus the other carriers that won't let you have it until your contract is up which by then that promotion may not exist since they are all just "promotions" with T-Mobile Un-Carrier moves are permanent.

             

            If you look at their competitors they are much more lenient and offer far more than any of their competition at any level of service not mention choices.  While the other competitors have tried to copy some of T-Mobile's features if you really look at them they have twisted them to charge you more, most notably AT&T when T-Mobile launched No-Contract and AT&T copied them they (AT&T) let you go no contract and "finance" your phone but they didn't drop the price of their service so essentially you were paying for the phone twice.  Where it applies T-Mobile extends Un-Carrier to No-Credit check plans like Data-Stash which No Credit Check plans get.

              • matesny

                Re: Credit Check vs No Credit Check

                I assume we are expressing opinions here because some of yours conflict with the 'facts' you said you were stating

                I am in the bid data marketing. I can see many fallacies these marketers inflict on themselves that push customers away from their offers! There is NO realizable difference between a credit check and no credit check customer when it comes to selling the same thing. The distinction in service levels are very poorly thought and not been tested at all, it seems. On the example I gave, a no-credit-check customer is unable to add a number to the family plan before 3 or whatever number of months of service that HE IS NOT OBLIGED TO KEEP at all. Yet, what if he started the family plan already including that new line he was trying to add? Very simple... I bought a family plan for myself +1, if I like the service after using it for a week or so, I decided to get a line for others in the family as well. Guess what, I can not because I have to keep the service for N+ months before I can do something I could have done while buying it

                Anyhow, TMobile has very poor coverage compared to AT&T, Verizon and Sprint. They try to make up the difference in pricing and flexibility. Those are the facts I know

                  • miket

                    Re: Credit Check vs No Credit Check

                        You raise a good point about TM not permitting a "no credit check family plan" until a user has had ONE line for 3 months.  I can't figure out any rational for that policy.

                      The other differences make sense.  No overseas calls, no roaming (at least over seas don't know about domestic roaming),

                    • stevetjr

                      Re: Credit Check vs No Credit Check

                      Sprint really, I live in Atlanta and my company gives me a Sprint phone

                      which is horrible with dropped calls, no signal and when I do is slower

                      than all get out and all this in a major metropolitan area. I don't even

                      use it, forwarded the number to my personal phone and have no issues and

                      get speeds between 35 and 85 Mbps. Not even AT&T or Verizon can hit speeds

                      like that around here, trust me as my friends on the other networks I have

                      not had one beat me yet on Speedtest.

                    • saboken

                      Re: Credit Check vs No Credit Check

                      If you look at it from a business stand point, post paid/credit check customers tend to stay with a carrier for longer periods of time (even with contracts not existing) versus pre-paid and I am not making judgements its just the reality and if you look when carriers report their earnings this is not true I was with Republic Wireless for 3 year's until they broke away from their parent company (Bandwidth.com) and started jacking up prices and lowering data plans! They are a pre paid Company that bills monthly and has no contact options as of yet! Their customers tended to stay because of 1.Price, 2. Reliability, 3. Affordable phones (not marked up 500%) for PREPAID customers.  So the logic that postpaid customers tend to stay longer is only due to the contract they are forced to fulfill or be charged a sometimes outrageous fee for ending there contract early! When a company has to impose contract's to keep customers it's because they are not providing a service people want to stay with unless they have no options available to them! When RW formed they took on they customer's that the BIG 4 didn't meet their credit standards and RW did really well the grew rather quickly without expensive advertising (that customers pay for) and focused on providing a decent service for a fair price I was Grandfathered into a $10 per month unlimited everything plan when I left an as I said I only left because they changed and started o follow the profit based tactics everone else were using sure they still have customers but they are now advertising and charging customers for it contracts are not needed for a company to be prosperous only if the company wants insane profit margins in were most of that profit doesn't go back into improving service only the quality of life for higher level employees and owners. This is the American way now. T-Mobile IMHO is better than the other 3 Verizon is the greediest of them all $100 for 10 gigs of data???? Data isn't a resource dug out of the ground it's 1s and 0s that travel through wires and fiber optics

                    • paulcarney

                      Re: Credit Check vs No Credit Check

                      I can tell you one big difference:  the european data roaming.  I did not give mobile my social security number because they have a history of spilling customer data Data breach hits roughly 15M T-Mobile customers, applicants - CNET  so I signed up for the no credit plan.  I called before heading off to Europe and was assured tat my phone would be ready to go when I hit the ground.  Guess what, not for no credit check customers.  I actually understand the logic of it, but you should not believe anything a mobile rep tells you.  they lie and lie and lie.  Now I am stuck miles from anywhere with no good options.  I will switch carriers as soon as i get back to the US.

                        • tidbits

                          Re: Credit Check vs No Credit Check

                          That breach could have happened to ANY company. Experian was the one that was breached and is one of the big 3 credit providers. If it was another server it could have been Verizon, Sears, Chevy, and a slew of companies out there. Just so happen the odds it had T-Mobile customer information on it.

                          • miket

                            Re: Credit Check vs No Credit Check

                            Tens of millions of TM customers have regular accounts.  Sooner or later everyone gets hacked - including various gov't agencies.  You are advising all TM customers to switch to a high priced carrier that doesn't offer "free" intl. roaming like TM? 

                              The terms for intl. roaming are clear on their site.

                              I  agree that no rep can possibly be familiar w. the numerous plans TM offers.  They should simply refer or hand out various sheets or give web sites describing the details of each plan.  Even include that with the first bill.

                              • paulcarney

                                Re: Credit Check vs No Credit Check

                                No, I'm advising them that Tmobile agents have lied repeatedly to me.  You're right, it is in the fine print of the agreement.  The agent I spoke to told me that they information she sent me was out of date, not to worry, all I had to do was text #766# when I got to Europe and data and texting would be turned on.  Of course, this could just be the mad ravings of someone who misheard the agent, except I have the text to prove it.  Mobile will lie to you and leave you stranded.  If you feel comfortable exposing your social security number to save a few bucks, go for it.  I try to minimize that exposure and am willing to pay to do so and would have made other arrangements had I not been lied to.

                                  • tidbits

                                    Re: Credit Check vs No Credit Check

                                    Don't ever buy a house, a car, and other various carrier options. Stick with prepaid. Don't do anything that'll build your credit if you are that worried.

                                     

                                    Verizon was compromised this year and I believe 4 years ago as well. AT&T has been twice in the past 4 years. Both of them on their own network. T-mobile data breach had nothing to do with T-Mobile. Experian was compromised which could have happened to any company that uses them and Federal regulation doesn't help. If you ever tried a loan for a car, personal loan, college loan, and/or similar services chances are your data is there.

                                      • paulcarney

                                        Re: Credit Check vs No Credit Check

                                        Wow, thanks for the broad financial advice. I thought this was a forum about Tmobile, and I've gotten so much more.  It's good to see Tmobile employees on here providing feedback.   In fact I paid cash for my last new car, and decided a million dollar loan was worth exposing my information for to buy a house, but real estate is a poor investment and people are probably better off renting instead, so good advice from you I suppose.  I also have a credit card for convenience, so I'm exposed there too.  I'm aware of my exposure and I choose to limit it.  The more you put that information out there the more likely it is to get stolen.A phone has never been worth the exposure to me.   And my phones have indeed always been prepaid.  And I have never had my data breeched.  Do what you want.  But you should probably get back to work answering the phones for Tmobile.


                                        People who read this forum should just be aware that Tmobile reps will repeatedly lie to you.  You should indeed read the fine print and not believe it when they tell you it doesn't apply to you.

                                          • stevetjr

                                            Re: Credit Check vs No Credit Check

                                            OK my two cents;

                                             

                                            First unless you see a tmo in front of the user name we are not employees,

                                            this is mostly a user support forum.

                                             

                                            Second, say all T-Mobile reps will lie to you is wrong and unfair to the

                                            good ones. Just like any sales environment there are a few bad apples

                                            and/or that just don't know the product as well as they should. You had a

                                            bad experience with one or two so saying a blanket statement is wrong.

                                             

                                            Last if you look at their international page it's not in fine print, it's

                                            quite clear pre-paid is not included in the free international roaming.

                                              • paulcarney

                                                Re: Credit Check vs No Credit Check

                                                Actually six.  Six Tmobile reps and hours of my time before we got to ``no, you can't have this.''  Then another 11 reps trying to fix the situation, none of whom seemed to tell a consistent story.  Terrible, terrible service.  I spoke with one person out of the seventeen who actually listened and gave some impression that she understood the situation. 

                                                 

                                                And no, I don't have prepaid, I have Simple Choice No Credit Check which is almost but not quite the same thing. I know the difference because I used to be a prepaid customer with a dumb phone till recently.   And I have a text from a Tmobile rep telling me explicitly not to worry about the statement from Tmobile.  I called while I was still in the US and was concerned and told flat out that it would work and was sent this text.  I relied on the veracity of that text.  Now of course there is nothing to be done for it and Tmobile will only give me the service they promised if I hand over my personal information, never mind the text from their own representative.  They will say anything to get your business and do next to nothing to provide service.

                                                 

                                                I'm not sure why the responses here are so eager to excuse Tmobile, but caveat emptor.

                                                  • matesny

                                                    Re: Credit Check vs No Credit Check

                                                    I am also having bad experiences with this type of account but I have nobody to blame but T-Mobile's fascist risk management team!

                                                    I'm also a kind of person who limits exposure and a wireless carrier isn't worth an exposure. I knowingly took the Simple Choice No Credit Check plan instead of having them running my credit, but with the promise that after 12 months of relationship this accoount can be converted to Standard Simple Choice account as 12-months of history is better than a credit score, T-Mobile CEO said.

                                                    The sales people did not tell me about what features the SCNC would have or not. I did not even ask. I researched online, by digging into T-Mobile.com and figured out all the differences between these types of accounts.

                                                    The way individuals are legally empowered to control access to their credit files in this era, it is time to dump those fascist risk managers and institute a vendor specific credit system, thus, my petition for UN-CARRIER 12

                                                      • tmo_lauren

                                                        Re: Credit Check vs No Credit Check

                                                        Hey there!

                                                         

                                                        There are a lot of reasons for the differences between the two account types, many of which have already been explained prior in this post. Specifically for roaming, because there is the ability to have roaming charges and there isn't a way for us to allow some roaming (specifically the free sort we use on standard SC) but not others, it's not something we can allow non credit check customers to use. Because it's an all or nothing limitation, a no credit check customer would be able to do other types of roaming that do incur charges and then have no financial ties to those charges and be able to walk away.

                                                         

                                                        That said, there is no excuse for our sales representatives not being able to properly convey that information and misguiding your expectations.

                                                         

                                                        If you have the opportunity, I would suggest reaching out to our T-Force team on FB or Twitter and have them look into the representatives who gave you incorrect information. While it won't change the current situation, we can at least make sure the incorrect info is held accountable for.

                                                         

                                                        Contact Us

                                                          • paulcarney

                                                            Re: Credit Check vs No Credit Check

                                                            Well, as I posted, I'm not taking issue with the logic of the policy (Though I did offer to post a large escrow in lieu of giving you my SSN, which seems like it ought to be a reasonable accommodation.  And it's also certainly not true that is has to be all or nothing for technical reasons, that's again a business decision by Tmobile.  If you couldn't distinguish between them, you wouldn't be able to charge for them differently.  It's also interesting that Tmobile is worried about the very small percentage of people who would abandon their bills, but it exposed a large percentage, nearly a third, of its customers to identity theft.  Nice thinking there.).  I'm taking issue with the bad information I was given repeatedly. 

                                                             

                                                            I am not on Twitter or FB, and I have spent enough of my time reaching out to Tmobile.  I also have no desire to see individuals punished for this.  Tmobile has terrible training broadly as is evidenced by the long series of people who tried to ``fix'' the problem without realizing the root cause.  They also have clearly been trained to just keep passing unhappy customers around until they are exhausted and give up.  If you want to do something productive, train your people differently.

                                                              • tmo_lauren

                                                                Re: Credit Check vs No Credit Check

                                                                Unfortunately the system just isn't designed to manage an escrow, there's no coding or infrastructure to say "this account has x, manage accordingly" and keep record of everything. Roaming providers also have a delay as to providing their usage to us, so if a provider has a delay (and we will see some of the roaming partners take days and longer to report costs) someone could blow through that set aside amount, and still end up far beyond it because a provider delayed reporting cost. And it is indeed for technical reasons, the free roaming actually has a delay, the system takes the report and then acknowledges it as free. Because we are reliant on other carriers reporting the usage to us, and the change cost actually is on the billing end, it is a technical issue that there isn't a way to only allow the free roaming. There has been a lot of exploring to see HOW we can only limit it that way, so the business is interested in making that an option should it be feasible. T-Mobile works hard to ensure shrinkage is at a minimum so we can continue offering so many options at a minimal cost, so ensuring security is in all facets is important to us.

                                                                 

                                                                We'll certainly get the feedback passed along never the less, as I mentioned, there is no excuse for any of our representatives providing the incorrect information.

                                                                 

                                                                -Lauren

                                                                  • paulcarney

                                                                    Re: Credit Check vs No Credit Check

                                                                    How much do you think I could ring up in a month?  10k?  20k?  I'll happily put $20k in escrow for you to gain access to the services I was promised without giving you my SSN. 

                                                                     

                                                                    Of course there is an excuse for your representative to pass along incorrect information: you don't train them properly.  This was not isolated.  I asked when I signed up what the difference was with no credit check accounts and was told the only difference was the deposit.  I asked explicitly about the data in Europe when I signed up my wife for the account and was told it would work.  I used the Tmobile app on my phone to contact a rep a week before I left the US to only ask about data roaming in Europe and was told I was ready to go.  Once in Europe I went through six representatives over three days before someone realized the problem.  That person was completely unwilling to help me find alternatives.  I asked to have my phone unlocked.  She said it would take up to 30 minutes (I have that in text too).  When I called back seven hours later the rep told me that yes, it can take up to 30 minutes within a 24 hour period. Yes.  Really.  This is the Orwellian nightmare your training produces.  This is a pattern of error that speaks to the incredibly poor job you do training people.  It's not their fault and it's pathetic that your response it to go seek out the individuals rather than fix your own broken corporate practices. 

                                                                      • miket

                                                                        Re: Credit Check vs No Credit Check

                                                                        I think you'll be happier with the high priced service from ATT.   I'm not sure how happy you'll be once you get their intl. roaming bill.   Beware - the don't offer full roaming services on non-"regular" plans like you had w. TM.

                                                                          • paulcarney

                                                                            Re: Credit Check vs No Credit Check

                                                                            Actually, I think I'll be much happier on the better network provided by Verizon which the rest of the extended family has and I will do exactly what I have done for years when abroad, buy a local sim card.  My mistake was believing what I was told (and texted) by Tmobile and not bringing an unlocked phone. 

                                                                              • miket

                                                                                Re: Credit Check vs No Credit Check

                                                                                That's what I said -- in fact Vz. IS the most expensive carrier- more than ATT.  Make sure you buy an upper end phone from them as their lower end ones can't be used overseas.  They will want your SS number if you want a regular acct

                                                                                  • tmo_lauren

                                                                                    Re: Credit Check vs No Credit Check

                                                                                    We still don't have a system in place to manage an escrow, unfortunately. I am happy to pass the suggestion along.

                                                                                     

                                                                                    It was certainly a failure on our end for the representatives not providing you the correct information, I wouldn't begin to try and excuse that or explain it away if that's what happened. This much misinformation is not something we regularly see, between the roaming and the unlock, and if you do choose to have us look closer into it in the future, we will be happy to do so. That said, I respect you wanting to wash your hands of the situation and move on not dedicating more time to it, but I still wanted to extend that offer.

                                                                                     

                                                                                    As I mentioned, this truly is not something I see with regularity which is why I had considered pursuing the individuals. It could even boil down to something where there is an issue with a specific centers practices and you encountered multiple from the same site and it's something we need to explore.

                                                                                     

                                                                                    While ultimately I agree with the roaming for non contract, I totally don't expect any meeting in the middle after this much of a headache, I would probably be in the same place as you. We should not be giving out incorrect information, no doubts about it and I will certainly get the feedback passed along.

                                                                                     

                                                                                    -Lauren

                                                                          • matesny

                                                                            Re: Credit Check vs No Credit Check

                                                                            Things happen to people. Bad economy happens and affects a large number of consumers. There is always a risk associated with lending people money or services.

                                                                            However, this risk to a wireless carrier is infinetisimally small. It is a trace amount of risk. T-Mobile's risk team who live in the past, 20th century past..., think this risk should dictate an all-or-none policy on unknown credit customers.

                                                                            I've read many research papers showing default rates on mortgages are same or similar among the different risk groups of consumers. A Wireless carrier is risking about NOTHING by extending a 1-month postpaid service to an unknown credit customer. T-Mobile's fascist risk managers will dispute this but it is what it is.

                                                                            Besides, I offered to bring my own credit report. If you are that hungry for credit scores, why don't you let customers BYOC?

                                                                            I'm sorry T-Mobile but There will always be extremely disgruntled segment of customers due to your credit dictates. You are not really extending me any credit by having me postpay. Considering I have not defaulted on you for a long time, it is a better credit rating between you and me than my credit score regarding my other billions of dollars of obligations that I did not default either

                                                                            A wireless service is worth nothing when it comes to exposing my credit file. All or Nothing

                                                        • cncb

                                                          Re: Credit Check vs No Credit Check

                                                          Can someone explain to me why with a "no credit check" account, I am not allowed to set up "EasyPay" for automatic payment each month?  This makes no sense to me at all.  It is almost like they want me to miss a payment so they can keep the "deposit" that I had to pay.

                                                            • miket

                                                              Re: Credit Check vs No Credit Check

                                                              I do not know what you mean by "easy pay".  Most of us simply go online to our bank site when the bill comes and pay it electronically.

                                                                • gramps28

                                                                  Re: Credit Check vs No Credit Check

                                                                  Easy pay is having a credit card or bank account attached and the monthly payments are taken

                                                                  out a couple days before the due date.

                                                                  • matesny

                                                                    Re: Credit Check vs No Credit Check

                                                                    miket wrote:

                                                                     

                                                                    I do not know what you mean by "easy pay".  Most of us simply go online to our bank site when the bill comes and pay it electronically.

                                                                     

                                                                    Easy Pay is automatic bill pay, automatically drawn by T-Mobile as opposed to automatically paid by your bank.

                                                                     

                                                                    I'm not sure why he is not alowed to set up automatic payments, probaly another Risk Management Fallacy by T-Mobile.

                                                                     

                                                                    This is by far the worst account management system I've ever encountered. The system itself seem to be owned by the risk management, the system is even broken apart into disconnected pieces by risk management dictates. Complete nonsense and this is my profession, designing such systems is what I do for living.