Branched from an earlier discussion.

Slow data on 1 of 2 lines.

patrickphotog

    I have 2 lines and am almost out of data on one so I am using the other. It is only running at 523 kbit/second. The advertising promises 4G LTE speed between 7000 kbit/sec and 90 MBit/sec. My other line measures over 10,000 kbit/sec so it is above the advertised minimum.

     

    They have told me that the phone is wrong, the tower is too far away and that there is too much congestion. Simply changing the SIM card results in 23 times slower data so it is NOT the phone/tower/congestion/cosmic_rays/...

     

    Here is the fast line. Note that this is downloading the Linux Kernel and averages 8237 kbit/second, but ~12 Mbit/sec at first.

    tmob.kernel.2018.0203.c.png

    The advertised speed is 7000 kbit/sec to 40,000 kbit/sec (40 MEGA_bit/second). So 8237 kbit/sec is within the advertised range.

    https://www.t-mobile.com/company/company-info/consumer/internet-services.html

    4G LTE Network (On-Device): Download speeds: Typically between 7 – 40 Mbps, with peaks up to 90 Mbps

     

     

    Here is my alternate line, 23 times slower and well below advertised/promised speeds:

    tmob.2018.0203a.png

    523 kbit/sec averaged over 800 readings taken ten times per second. 

     

    Promised 7000 kbit/second MINIMUM advertised speed,  Actual 523 kbit/second.  7.5% of advertised speed or 13X below promised speed.

     

    Have I tried customer support?

     

    ~/dat> grep Cust  tmob.voice.2018.0203.jan.txt

    01/30/2018, 08:42 AM    Cust Care       (800) 937-8997  7       --

    01/29/2018, 03:55 PM    Cust Care       (800) 937-8997  26      Call Waiting

    01/29/2018, 02:55 PM    Cust Care       (800) 937-8997  59      --

    01/16/2018, 02:25 PM    Cust Care       (800) 937-8997  68      --

    12/19/17, 1:47 PM       Cust Care       (800) 937-8997  53      Free Calls      --

    12/19/17, 1:31 PM       Cust Care       (800) 937-8997  15      Free Calls      --

    11/25/17, 12:23 PM      Cust Care       (800) 937-8997  42      Free Calls      --

    11/25/17, 12:22 PM      Cust Care       (800) 937-8997  1       Free Calls      --

    11/20/17, 6:20 PM       Cust Care       (800) 937-8997  3       Free Calls      --

    11/15/17, 3:24 PM       Cust Care       (800) 937-8997  141     Free Calls      --

    11/09/17, 11:02 AM      Cust Care       (800) 937-8997  99      Free Calls      --

    11/01/17, 1:08 PM       Cust Care       (800) 937-8997  16      Free Calls      --

    11/01/17, 12:47 PM      Cust Care       (800) 937-8997  18      Free Calls      --

    10/25/17, 7:50 PM       Cust Care       (800) 937-8997  25      Free Calls      --

    10/16/17, 3:11 PM       Cust Care       (800) 937-8997  47      Free Calls      --

    10/11/17, 5:34 PM       Cust Care       (800) 937-8997  51      Free Calls      --

    10/06/17, 11:30 AM      Cust Care       (800) 937-8997  25      Free Calls      --

    10/05/17, 6:37 PM       Customer Care   (877) 453-1304  2       Free Calls      --

    10/05/17, 6:33 PM       Customer Care   (877) 453-1304  4       Free Calls      --

    09/21/17, 7:20 PM       Cust Care       (800) 937-8997  6       Free Calls      --

    09/21/17, 6:39 PM       Cust Care       (800) 937-8997  17      Free Calls      --

    09/12/17, 5:38 PM       Cust Care       (800) 937-8997  18      Free Calls      --

     

    ~/dat> grep Cust  tmob.voice.2018.0203.jan.txt | psr.pl -N "s/^.*\-\d{4}\s+(\d+).*$/\$1/"  | add -s

    Average=33.77, Sum=743, Count=22

     

    I have tried 22 calls since September, over half an hour average per call for a total of 743 minutes or over 12 hours.

     

    I wonder whether this is a world record for poor customer service.

     

    T-Mobile, please fix my second line.

     

    TYVM

      All replies

      • gramps28

        Re: Slow data on 1 of 2 lines.

        The word typically doesn't guarantee the data speeds.

         

        Your other phone may lack the bands and that's why the speeds are slow.

          • patrickphotog

            Re: Slow data on 1 of 2 lines.

            Tidbits,

             

            >> quite possibly it could be your phone

            Same phone, different SIM card

             

            Now that Isabel fixed my line, I am now measuring 12.6 Mbit/sec averated over 600 readings and a peak speed of 21M!

            It's not the phone (Nexus 6)

            Earlier today, it was measuring just over 500 kbit/sec.  Earlier in the week, I was measuring 19 kbit/second.

             

            My account settings are hosed.

             

              =====================

            Test Results:

            PGDET: 600 Readings, Elapsed time=62.501802 sec, iface_MBytes=98.561150

            PGDET: Average speed = 1.577 MB/sec ~= 12615.463 kbit/sec

            GRTIT: Average speed=12615.46 kbit/sec, HD_Video=ON, Phone_mode=4G_LTE

             

            tmob.dl.hd.video.on.2018.0203l.png

             

          • tidbits

            Re: Slow data on 1 of 2 lines.

            quite possibly it could be your phone and not the service what troubleshooting has been done between the two phones and what two phones are there? Are they unlocked or T-Mobile branded devices?

             

            Also no carrier has ever promised a minimum set of speeds because there are so many factors and to why they always say "up to" or "typically", and not "at least"

            • patrickphotog

              Re: Slow data on 1 of 2 lines.

              Tidbits,

               

              This sure looks like a performance claim to me. How do you read it?

              Company Information | T-Mobile’s Broadband Internet Access Services

              4G LTE Network (On-Device):

              • Download speeds: Typically between 7 – 40 Mbps, with peaks up to 90 Mbps and minimum expected speeds of less than .1 Mbps

              Do you think that the "< .1 Mbps" "weasel term" complies with "you must have at least that level of support" federal advertising regulation?

               

              Do you think Ford would get away with claiming 21 miles/gallon (but we may actually only provide  LESS THAN 0.3 miles/gallon)?

               

              I think this Federal Trade Commission rule applies:

              Advertising and Marketing on the Internet: Rules of the Road | Federal Trade Commission

              claims must be substantiated, especially when they concern health, safety, or performance. The type of evidence may depend on the product, the claims, and what experts believe necessary. If your ad specifies a certain level of support for a claim - "tests show X" - you must have at least that level of support.

               

              They were claiming 7000 MINIMUM and I was measuring 19. Do you think this is "Close Enough"?  If I owe you $7000, can I slide by with paying you just $19?

               

              When there are multiple variables, just like with Gas Mileage, the claim MUST be on the conservative side or it is FALSE ADVERTISING.

               

              When a customer can show conclusively that T-Mobile's performance is less than advertised, T-Mobile is ethically and in every other way obligated to do anything even remotely reasonable to provide the stated level of performance.

               

              I have to do this every month.

                • tidbits

                  Re: Slow data on 1 of 2 lines.

                  Cars have an  say 31 City and often a lot of them do not hit 31 consistently.  Same deal my friend.  Good luck with that argument.  Typical is not MINIMAL.  Go and try that with a judge or the FCC, and you will find out what you are assuming regardless of carrier is not how it works when it comes to False advertising regulations.  T-Mobile can show those test and judge could look through the web and see screenshots and what not out there to show T-Mobile network can hit those marks if not higher.  Then it would come down to other factors as potentially why you are not getting those speeds.  Case dismissed win the carrier(has been this way for in various industries).

                   

                  No I do not work for T-Mobile.  I have done quite a few False advertising class action lawsuits in the past 30 years of my life.

                    • patrickphotog

                      Re: Slow data on 1 of 2 lines.

                      Tidbits,

                       

                      These "typical" estimates are arrived at after extensive testing. A 95% certainty envelope is calculated for the data and the conservative lower bound is established such that not more than 5% of samples would be expected to fall below this estimate.  It is known as the "2 Sigma Rule".

                       

                      Measured performance of 19 kbit/sec compared to "typical" minimum range of 7000 kbits/sec (368.421053 times higher) falls slightly outside the confidence envelope.

                       

                      You may wish to review this with a math person:

                      https://www3.epa.gov/ttnemc01/news/appdixc.pdf   << EPA Mileage estimate calculations

                       

                      Similarly, phone companies, regulated by the same Federal Trade Commission have to follow these same guidelines or risk protracted litigation with the Feds.

                       

                      Here's hoping that you win an action in the next 30 years. 

                    • dragon1562

                      Re: Slow data on 1 of 2 lines.

                      I also just want to chime in and say you have misunderstood the fine print since I reread what you link to be sure. You also seem to misunderstand how the network works and why its impossible to guarantee a set speed with any wireless network not just T-mobile. If you need help trouble shooting don't be afraid to ask but in the mean time I wouldn't hold my breath or waste energy over a lawsuit or whatever you had in mind.

                        • patrickphotog

                          Re: Slow data on 1 of 2 lines.

                          Dragon,

                          >> you have misunderstood the fine print

                          Clearly, it is you who fail to understand the governing, federal law:

                          If your ad specifies a certain level of support for a claim - "tests show X" - you must have at least that level of support.

                           

                          Are you familiar with the meaning of the term "at least".  Try re-re-rereading...

                           

                          It was tidbit who was bragging about his myriad lawsuits in the past decades (never mentioned winning any). My point was that the FTC can sue if repeated and flagrant violations are reported.  I am NOT the FTC.

                           

                          Your legalese fine point that nobody can promise 100.000000000% performance 100.000000% of the  time is meaningless. I am not peeved about getting only 99.9% of advertised claims, but rather about getting 19 when promised 7000 kbps.

                           

                          Is this too fine a distinction for  you to grok?

                           

                          And, it's a configuration issue at T-Mobile because, as shown in the graphs, the speed went from 19 to 12,000 kbits with a flip of a switch by T-Mobile.  This happens every week.

                           

                           

                            • dragon1562

                              Re: Slow data on 1 of 2 lines.

                              4G LTE Network (On-Device):

                              • Download speeds: Typically between 7 – 40 Mbps, with peaks up to 90 Mbps and minimum expected speeds of less than .1 Mbps
                              • Upload speeds: Typically between 4 – 20 Mbps, with peaks up to 35 Mbps and minimum expected speeds of less than .1 Mbps
                              • Latency: Typically between 30 – 55 ms

                              4G LTE Network (Via Smartphone Mobile HotSpot/Tethering, for Plans Including 4G LTE Tethering):

                              • Download Speed: Typically between 3 – 25 Mbps, with peaks up to 90 Mbps and minimum expected speeds of less than .1 Mbps
                              • Upload Speed: Typically between 2 – 10 Mbps, with peaks up to 35 Mbps and minimum expected speeds of less than .1 Mbps
                              • Latency: Typically between 30 – 55 ms

                              This was copied straight form the link you provided.  T-mobile never promised you 7mb. They clear say at the end "minimum expected speeds of less than .1mbps.

                               

                              Also I honestly must ask why you are here? I get the impression that you believe to know it all and you seem to be arguing with everyone that just wants to help you. I know my grammer is not the best but that is no reason to talk down to me.

                              • tidbits

                                Re: Slow data on 1 of 2 lines.

                                patrickphotog wrote:

                                 

                                Dragon,

                                >> you have misunderstood the fine print

                                Clearly, it is you who fail to understand the governing, federal law:

                                If your ad specifies a certain level of support for a claim - "tests show X" - you must have at least that level of support.

                                 

                                Are you familiar with the meaning of the term "at least". Try re-re-rereading...

                                 

                                It was tidbit who was bragging about his myriad lawsuits in the past decades (never mentioned winning any). My point was that the FTC can sue if repeated and flagrant violations are reported. I am NOT the FTC.

                                 

                                Your legalese fine point that nobody can promise 100.000000000% performance 100.000000% of the time is meaningless. I am not peeved about getting only 99.9% of advertised claims, but rather about getting 19 when promised 7000 kbps.

                                 

                                Is this too fine a distinction for you to grok?

                                 

                                And, it's a configuration issue at T-Mobile because, as shown in the graphs, the speed went from 19 to 12,000 kbits with a flip of a switch by T-Mobile. This happens every week.

                                 

                                 

                                Of course we didn't win, because perceptions doesn't win cases.  Like I said if it was false advertising and you believe you had a clear case you'd just go with the lawsuit and free yourself instead of trying to bully to get what you want.  That in on itself gives reasonable doubt you have a case. 

                                 

                                Go ahead and try it and see what happens.  You were never promised 7mbps.

                                  • patrickphotog

                                    Re: Slow data on 1 of 2 lines.

                                    Tidbits

                                    >> just go with the lawsuit

                                    you are the only one mentioning 30 years of lost lawsuits. I simply quoted the rules of the road governing fair advertising.

                                     

                                    >> instead of trying to bully ...

                                    How dare you accuse me of bullying. To bully is to take unfair advantage from a position of superiority.

                                     

                                    In an intellectual clash of ideas, you can only be bullied if you are unarmed.   

                            • landonloco

                              Re: Slow data on 1 of 2 lines.

                              I have to agree with tidbits here it clearly states on the terms and conditions that speeds are subject to geographical limits landscape limits etc so t mobile can't guarantee that the speeds would be 7-40mbps all the time

                                • patrickphotog

                                  Re: Slow data on 1 of 2 lines.

                                  landonloco

                                   

                                  Your  "subject to geographical limits landscape limits"' excuse falls flat when the nice tech lady can flip a switch on her end and change my line from 19kbps  to  12,000kbps.

                                   

                                  Did she somehow flatten the hills between here and there? Drop a new tower in my back yard?  Suddenly place a geosynchronous satellite exactly over my house?

                                   

                                  Or, is there some horrible misconfiguration issue that frequently sets  my account to 1G speed when it CAN DO 4G LTE speed?

                                   

                                  Which is more likely?

                                   

                                   

                                    • landonloco

                                      Re: Slow data on 1 of 2 lines.

                                      It just a network reset that just forces the phone to connect to other towers if the phone connects to other one that isn't congested speeds will improve

                                      • landonloco

                                        Re: Slow data on 1 of 2 lines.

                                        If it's a account problem the only thing I can think of is the de prioritizing cap of 50GB

                                          • patrickphotog

                                            Re: Slow data on 1 of 2 lines.

                                            landonloco,

                                             

                                            >> a network reset  ...  will improve

                                            Given the choice between spending half an your on the phone with tech support or rebooting the phone, any sane person would choose the 1 minute reboot.

                                             

                                            It has never once helped and I have tried it many times.  No Cigar!

                                             

                                            >> Must be your fault:  I can think of is the depriode prioritizing cap of 50GB

                                            From https://my.t-mobile.com/usage/usageoverview.html

                                            6.30 GB  of Unlimited high-speed

                                             

                                            Not even close.  You are off in the weeds today!

                                             

                                            You need to give up trying to make up flimsy excuses for Titanically Terrible Phone Service.  Service 368 times slower than advertised is INDEFENSIBLE!

                                             

                                            Case Closed!

                                             

                                             

                                             

                                              • tidbits

                                                Re: Slow data on 1 of 2 lines.

                                                Are you tethering?

                                                • landonloco

                                                  Re: Slow data on 1 of 2 lines.

                                                  Well if the problem  isn't the cap then you are just experiencing extreme congestion did you check the data usage dialing #data# this provides data usage including bing on data if it's still below 50GB it could be the device or as stated extreme congestion if speeds doesn't satisfy you you could switch carriers and I be honest all carriers experience at some point from network congestion in my area both t mobile and AT&T have congestion issues

                                                    • patrickphotog

                                                      Re: Slow data on 1 of 2 lines.

                                                      landonloco

                                                      >> could be the device or as stated extreme congestion

                                                      Did you read the part about how Isabel flipped a switch and within seconds, the speed went from 500 kbits to 12,000 kbits?

                                                       

                                                      Did her switch flipping fix my device?  It is NOT my phone.

                                                       

                                                      Did she hang up on everybody else clogging the network so I could get through?  She didn't suddenly fix network congestion!

                                                       

                                                      Is there some extreme, recurring configuration problem with My Account that has to be fixed every few days.

                                                       

                                                      Telling a paying customer to either accept bad service or to "switch carriers" should be a terminable offense,  the Zenith of Bad Customer Service.  The Corrections Industry is looking for forward thinkers!

                                                       

                                                       

                                            • landonloco

                                              Re: Slow data on 1 of 2 lines.

                                              The flip the switch as a you said it's just a network reset or line refresh it has different names it normally just forces the phone to connect to the best signal that speeds jump that you see does it stays at 12mbps or does it goes back to 500kbps after a couple minutes if so then that's probably with the tower that you are connected at the time did any of the reps that you have talked to did they file a trouble ticket for you

                                                • patrickphotog

                                                  Re: Slow data on 1 of 2 lines.

                                                  landonloco,

                                                   

                                                  >> does it stays at 12mbps

                                                  I am reading 7.8 on Fast.com just now. Wow!  I would be happy as a **** if it would just stay "around" here!

                                                   

                                                  Surely, rebooting the phone "forces the phone to connect to the best signal". In 101+ attempts, rebooting has never made any noticeable difference.

                                                   

                                                  As I have stated above, I have placed 23 tech support calls totaling  over 12 hours of my time since 9/12/2017. The very knowledgeable Tech Support Supervisor, Raymond, told me that my account was screwed up and created yet another support ticket. 

                                                   

                                                  Here is another clue;  Having T-Mobile techs set the profile->media_settings->HD_Video_Resolution to ON 100% fixes the problem in under a minute, every time. It still reads OFF on my.t-mobile.com and clicking on it only prints this error message,"Something went wrong and we were unable to process your request.". But, I do get a text message about purchasing HD video and it shows up on my bill.

                                                   

                                                  So, the only way to get the $60 level advertised performance is to $85 plan.

                                                  The specifics of my situation reminds me of this:

                                                  https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/business.../advertising-faqs ...

                                                  Bait and Switch. How does the FTC define "bait and switch" advertising? It's illegal to advertise a product when the company has no intention of selling that item, but instead plans to sell a consumer something else, usually at a higher price.

                                                  And, there is a bunch more fascinating reading about the topic; use of bait and switch techniques, failure to perform promised services, systematically defective products or services, ... on FTC.gov.  Riveting!

                                                   

                                                  I have the LTE Discovery app and it tells me the GPS coords of my tower as well as shows the distance of 5938m and points an arrow in toward it. Very slick. Always the same tower.

                                                   

                                                  LTE: -109.0 dBm, band 12, but sometimes briefly jumps to band 4. Usually 3/4 bars. Always 2+.

                                                   

                                                  Rather than having me monitor their performance and spend half an hour on the phone every few days to repeatedly get it fixed, how hard would it be to run a "CRON" job to automagically check up on these extremely problematic lines and have the system flip the switch as needed to maintain the advertised customer experience. 

                                                   

                                                  Think of how much less strain on T-Mobilers if a running a simple checkup script could get one major crackpot off the support line and web page!

                                                   

                                                  Capital Idea!!!!!

                                                  • landonloco

                                                    Re: Slow data on 1 of 2 lines.

                                                    Mmm that's quite odd bing on/standard quality video toggle only limits video streams to 1.5mbps anything else should be running at the available speeds.The speed test page that you use is affected by the HD toggle I know this suggestion sounds crazy but did try to suspend the line for 24 hours to see if any problem regarding your line reverts back only bad thing tho is that you would have to pay the reconnection fee of 20$ or if you phone is pay off on the last day of the billing cycle you could cancel the line entirely

                                                  • tmo_marissa

                                                    Re: Slow data on 1 of 2 lines.

                                                    Hey, patrickphotog! There is definitely a lot to take in here -- and it looks like you've really been through the ringer trying to get to the bottom of this.

                                                    You mentioned that at one point a representative was able to improve this somehow -- and then it slowed again? I also think you mentioned that when you place a different (T-Mobile?) SIM in the same device, the speed issues aren't happening. Could this be an issue with the SIM itself, or an issue with a speed reduction -- over any of the calls in, have we taken a look at the line in question and mentioned that the line's been de-prioritized? When you mentioned changing the SIM, were you referencing updating to a new T-Mobile SIM, or just placing a different line's active T-Mobile SIM in the phone that's having the speed trouble?

                                                      • patrickphotog

                                                        Re: Slow data on 1 of 2 lines.

                                                        Marissa,

                                                         

                                                        >>at one point a representative was able to improve this [slow speed] somehow

                                                        On numerous occasions in the last 23 tech support calls, the tech is able to reset something and dramatically improve the speed

                                                         

                                                        I have 2 sim cards, both can be fast or very slow. I have measured speeds well over 7Mbits/sec to as high as 21Mbits/sec with each sim in the same phone.

                                                         

                                                        I have been told many, many times that I have the wrong phone, that I am too far from a tower or that congestion must be the problem. When a tech flips a switch and increases speed from 19kbit/sec to 12000kbit/sec, it is NOT the phone/tower/congestion/sunspots/... It is the account settings at t-mobile.

                                                         

                                                        I had 6gb of 50gb allowed when I was seeing 500kbit/sec in the latest episode so no, "line's been de-prioritized"  SHOULD NOT BE HAPPENING.

                                                         

                                                        This is just what it looks like, somebody degraded the line from 4G LTE back to the 1G stone age speed. 19kbit/sec is less than 1/2 of MINIMUM 2G speed of 40kbit/sec to 200 kbit/sec per your advertised speeds.

                                                         

                                                        I got both sims when I signed up 5 months ago. They both work exactly the same.

                                                         

                                                        Please run a script on my server which checks up on my lines periodically and "flips the switch" back to 4G LTE speed whenever it detects anything slower. This way, I won't have to call every few days and wait for half an hour with tortuous, never ending spam messages and annoying hold music.

                                                         

                                                        I only have 1 phone and 2 sims. For experimental purposes, could you expedite a Note8 for testing until these recurring problems are finally fixed?

                                                         

                                                        Here is a graph from the last meltdown:

                                                         

                                                        HORRIBLE SPEED, 523 KILO_bits/second 13 times slower than advertised.

                                                        tmob.2018.0203a.png

                                                         

                                                        Here is the same phone/tower/sim after they flipped the switch:

                                                         

                                                        Good speed, ~12 MILLION bits/second

                                                        tmob.kernel.2018.0203.c.png

                                                         

                                                        Look at the difference in speed;  523 kbit/sec to roughly 12000kbit/sec,   23 TIMES faster after the fix. In  the advertised range of 7000kbit/sec to 40000kbit/second.   12M is good. 1/2M is 14 times slower than advertised, very, very bad.

                                                         

                                                        Please hire a team to take shifts monitoring my lines and fixing them instantly when they revert to 1G/2G speed.

                                                         

                                                        Or, run a "CRON" script to check every so often, do the same fix and save hiring 4 people. Hmmm...

                                                         

                                                        Tyvm

                                                          • patrickphotog

                                                            Re: Slow data on 1 of 2 lines.

                                                            And Another Thing!

                                                             

                                                            Even when the average speed is the full 1.5Mbit/sec advertised for "optimized video", the stream is choppy, buffering every few seconds.

                                                            Notice the near zero speed at times 6, 14, 23, 29, 38, 49, 54, 64, 71 and 80 seconds in the graph below. Most of these are "VIDEO_BUFFERING INCIDENTS" in which the video locks up and you see the dreaded spinning wheel on your screen.

                                                             

                                                            10 buffering incidents in 80 seconds, that's a video DEFECT every 8 seconds. I will bet this is caused by a "deep packet inspection" process running every 8 seconds to detect and clamp video streams!

                                                             

                                                            Is this designed to drive people insane or is the just the unintended consequence?

                                                             

                                                            With HD video turned on, all of this magically goes away. 

                                                             

                                                            Would you rather be driven insane by bad, choppy, low quality video or pay only 42% more to get true "minimal buffering" we promise but fail to deliver in our basic plan?

                                                             

                                                            This incessant, obnoxious buffering is clearly contradictory to the "minimal buffering" being advertised.

                                                            tmob.2018.0108b.png

                                                            Buffering defects in the video at times 6, 14, 23, 29, 38, 49, 54, 64, 71 and 80 seconds

                                                            ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                                                             

                                                            Here is the FAST.COM test from Netflix. Notice that for the first ~4 seconds, the speed is around 12Mbit/sec, then video is detected and the speed drops by ~90% to 1.5Mbit. The 4 second delay before video is detected exactly matches the 8 seconds between Deep_Packet_Inspections seen in the above graph.

                                                            tmob.fast.com.2018.0203g.png

                                                            Company Information | T-Mobile’s Broadband Internet Access Services

                                                            "video optimization features which, when connected to the cellular network, deliver a DVD quality (typically 480p or better) video experience at up to 1.5Mbps with minimal buffering while streaming."

                                                             

                                                            All I want is smooth, predictable, reliable data at or above the advertised speeds. Is this possible??

                                                            • tidbits

                                                              Re: Slow data on 1 of 2 lines.

                                                              are you tethering?  Exactly what plan do you have?  Does one have the added data package ($10 or $25)?  Something tells me that you slow speeds are because you are tethering and that is always depriotized no matter what last I remember unless you have the unlimited tethering option which is $25 added to your bill.  Max speed tethering would be 3G on any current plan.

                                                                • patrickphotog

                                                                  Re: Slow data on 1 of 2 lines.

                                                                  Tidbits,

                                                                  With tethering, I am limited to something like 5GB and then it drops down to 2G for the rest of the month.

                                                                   

                                                                  With large files (like a new Linux DVD size distro), I download it on the phone where the limit is 50GB and then copy it over when it is done.

                                                                   

                                                                  I have just the rot-gut 55+ plan with "unlimited 4G LTE". The advertising claims 7Mbit/sec - 40 Mbit and that is what I have every right and reason to both expect and demand.

                                                                   

                                                                  My numbers are taken directly from the /proc file system on the Android phone. I  wrote a tiny C program which loops 800 times, reads the rx_bytes on the /proc/net/dev, printfs the bytes and a uint32 epoch time(0) to stdout and sleeps for 1/10th second.

                                                                   

                                                                  I copy the log file to my workstation, parse it with another C program  and generate these graphs.

                                                                   

                                                                  This is the advertised feature. I accept the 50GB limit and stay within it.

                                                                  "2 lines with unlimited talk, text and LTE data on America’s best unlimited network for $60/mo"

                                                                   

                                                                  The wifi hotspot has never been reliable and I have to restart my network constantly. Any video watching on my large monitor has such poor quality and is so choppy and convulsive as to be more aggravation than it is worth. My Nexus 6 screen works 10 times better and also has 4 million pixels.

                                                                   

                                                                  I get the text message warnings at 48GB and change sims: "You've used  48GB of data this month. If you exceed 50 bla bla bla ..."

                                                                   

                                                                  Like I said, I had used 6GB out of 50 when I had 523 kbit/sec where 7000kbit MINIMUM is advertised.  This is UNACCEPTABLE! No Excuses.

                                                                   

                                                                  Your "you must be abusing the system" excuse for poor network performance is without merit.

                                                                    • tidbits

                                                                      Re: Slow data on 1 of 2 lines.

                                                                      IF you read the advertised amount you are not garenteed 7mbps.  You are cherry picking and taking things out of context.  In context this is what your minimum speeds they promise are in bold.

                                                                       

                                                                      4G LTE Network (On-Device):

                                                                      • Download speeds: Typically between 7 – 40 Mbps, with peaks up to 90 Mbps and minimum expected speeds of less than .1 Mbps
                                                                      • Upload speeds: Typically between 4 – 20 Mbps, with peaks up to 35 Mbps and minimum expected speeds of less than .1 Mbps
                                                                      • Latency: Typically between 30 – 55 ms

                                                                       

                                                                      As for 5GB of tethering that isn't the case you have unlimited tethering at 3G speeds(up to 500mbps "ish").  If you paid the $10 package it would be 10GB of LTE, and if you paid the $25 it would be unlimited (depriotization after 50GB).

                                                                       

                                                                      If you are running VPNs or anything to bypass these tethering limits then that's why you are getting slower speeds as they can see VPN traffic and T-Mobile treats it as tethering.  IIRC this was brought up a few years ago and someone complained about it and research on other boards showed people did this to get unlimited LTE tethering at the time.  So that could be what is happening.

                                                                        • dragon1562

                                                                          Re: Slow data on 1 of 2 lines.

                                                                          Tidbits is right although he made a small typo in regards to 3g(512kbps) speeds. Also as I pointed out to you earlier OP your cherry picking. No matter how much you complain it won't just magically change the fine print. If the carrier doesn't provide for your needs then you should switch carriers or buy a plan that does work for you. Thats the best info I can give you rather than getting upset. I personally believe switching is the wrong call as you are paying next to nothing to have two lines active, I also believe that you are using the network in a weird way to the norm. This is why you running into so many issues.

                                                                            • patrickphotog

                                                                              Re: Slow data on 1 of 2 lines.

                                                                              Dragon,

                                                                               

                                                                              >> you are paying next to nothing to have two lines

                                                                               

                                                                              I.E.  >> Our fine print clearly states we can give you nothing and you are getting slightly more than that. What's your beef?

                                                                              I.E.  >> You are looking at the wrong number. All you have any right to expect is the MINIMUM 0.1 Mbit/sec.

                                                                              I.E.  >> That "Typical" 7 Mbit/sec Download speed doesn't apply to you. 

                                                                              I.E.  >> Typical only works if you pay more

                                                                               

                                                                              >> should switch carriers

                                                                              You should be fired for suggesting that paying customers who complain about poor performance 13 times lower than advertised rates "switch carriers".

                                                                               

                                                                              Do not comment on this case again.

                                                                               

                                                                            • patrickphotog

                                                                              Re: Slow data on 1 of 2 lines.

                                                                              tidbit,

                                                                              Your claim that 0 speed (which is < 0.1 Mbit/sec)  must be accepted by paying customers because it is in your find print is a

                                                                              DIRECT CONTRADICTION OF FEDERAL REGULATIONS FROM THE FTC.

                                                                              You don't get to cherry pick which federal laws you comply with and which you overrule with your fine, weasel print.

                                                                               

                                                                              Have somebody read this to you, slowly....

                                                                              Advertising and Marketing on the Internet: Rules of the Road | Federal Trade Commission

                                                                              In addition, claims must be substantiated, especially when they concern health, safety, or performance. The type of evidence may depend on the product, the claims, and what experts believe necessary. If your ad specifies a certain level of support for a claim - "tests show X" - you must have at least that level of support.

                                                                               

                                                                              Your repeated canard that there is zero performance obligation on the part of T-Mobile is false, and tiresome.

                                                                               

                                                                              >> they can see VPN traffic and T-Mobile treats it as tethering

                                                                              You have no idea what you are talking about. I have never used any type of VPN here and you have absolutely no reason or data to suggest that.

                                                                               

                                                                              Please do not comment on this case again.

                                                                                • tidbits

                                                                                  Re: Slow data on 1 of 2 lines.

                                                                                  patrickphotog wrote:

                                                                                   

                                                                                  tidbit,

                                                                                  Your claim that 0 speed (which is < 0.1 Mbit/sec) must be accepted by paying customers because it is in your find print is a

                                                                                  DIRECT CONTRADICTION OF FEDERAL REGULATIONS FROM THE FTC.

                                                                                  You don't get to cherry pick which federal laws you comply with and which you overrule with your fine, weasel print.

                                                                                   

                                                                                  Have somebody read this to you, slowly....

                                                                                  Advertising and Marketing on the Internet: Rules of the Road | Federal Trade Commission

                                                                                  In addition, claims must be substantiated, especially when they concern health, safety, or performance. The type of evidence may depend on the product, the claims, and what experts believe necessary. If your ad specifies a certain level of support for a claim - "tests show X" - you must have at least that level of support.

                                                                                   

                                                                                  Your repeated canard that there is zero performance obligation on the part of T-Mobile is false, and tiresome.

                                                                                   

                                                                                  >> they can see VPN traffic and T-Mobile treats it as tethering

                                                                                  You have no idea what you are talking about. I have never used any type of VPN here and you have absolutely no reason or data to suggest that.

                                                                                   

                                                                                  Please do not comment on this case again.

                                                                                  Whatever you say man.  Have you tried to Force yourself down to HSPA+ and seeing what your speeds are?  3G?

                                                                                  Actually there is data to suggest that.  You have slow speeds and a VPN on T-Mobile can be a cause for it, and if you had a VPN on whether you were trying to bypass tethering or not would be to check to see if your speeds return.  Every time you repopulate the account line for a short moment the network may not see you are using a VPN. 

                                                                                   

                                                                                  Show me where outside that document where T-Mobile or any carrier for that matter specifically state speeds.  If that's your only document the FTC will not help you.  You need something more than that document for False advertising.  A commercial, brochure, or something.  Since that document says minium speeds is .1mbps and you are getting .5mbps the FTC will not deem that false advertising.  You should sift through some court cases before you go that route. Just a suggestion.

                                                                        • patrickphotog

                                                                          Re: Slow data on 1 of 2 lines.

                                                                          Community Manager Marissa,

                                                                          You have 2 uninformed, unprofessional unhelpful "contributors" here who are repeatedly stating that there is no network performance minimum that a paying customer can depend upon. Stating that LESS THAN 0.1 Mbits/second is all you get and if you don't like it "SWITCH CARRIERS" should be grounds for summary termination for cause.

                                                                           

                                                                          Company Information | Consumer Code for Wireless Service | T-Mobile

                                                                          DISCLOSE RATES AND TERMS OF SERVICE TO CONSUMERS

                                                                          For each service plan offered to new consumers, wireless carriers will disclose to consumers at point of sale and on their web sites, at least the following information, as applicable

                                                                          (d) the amount and nature of any voice, messaging, or data allowances included in the plan

                                                                          (g) whether there are prohibitions on data service usage and whether there are network management practices that will have a material impact on the customer’s wireless data experience;

                                                                           

                                                                          Any reasonable person would consider DATA SPEED  to be covered by the "amount and nature"  requirement here.

                                                                          I get a warning at 48 GB of data usage and I fully accept this reasonable and fully disclosed limit.

                                                                           

                                                                          What I do NOT accept is seeing 523 kbit/sec  where 7000 kbit/sec is clearly stated in the advertising.

                                                                           

                                                                          And accusing a customer of somehow stealing data by using a VPN is unprofessional, unsupported by the facts and nothing but bullying and trolling. I have never used a VPN and they have no reason whatsoever to suggest such.

                                                                           

                                                                          You need to have them read this and possibly explain the concepts.

                                                                          Advertising and Marketing on the Internet: Rules of the Road | Federal Trade Commission

                                                                          "The Federal Trade Commission Act allows the FTC to act in the interest of all consumers to prevent deceptive and unfair acts or practices."

                                                                          "If your ad specifies a certain level of support for a claim - "tests show X" - you must have at least that level of support."

                                                                           

                                                                          Having unprincipled commentators on your web support site sneering at federal law while  trying to browbeat, bamboozle and cow customers into believing that T-Mobile can give them next to nothing and there is nothing they can do about it reflects very poorly on T-Mobile.

                                                                           

                                                                          You are the manager, you need to take action when you find customer abuse and contempt for consumer protection rules like this.

                                                                           

                                                                          The 2 perpetrators are tidbits and dragon15

                                                                            • dragon1562

                                                                              Re: Slow data on 1 of 2 lines.

                                                                              As mentioned before this forum is for anyone to use. I do not get paid in anyway to help people, I simply do it because I enjoy doing. At no point have I bullied you and I find it laughable that you would even accuse me of such when I have expiernced true abuse. On numerous occasions you have insulted me now in this thread and not once have I said anything to you to deserve it. Your not being helpful and intern me and tidbits can't help you. Were here to help you with trouble shooting and provide advice, what you do with it is up to you. We are not lawyers, nor have I atleast ever claimed to be. I can only make assumptions or guesses when you don't answer any of my questions.

                                                                               

                                                                              PS your not my boss so don't try and order me around, were equals and humans. Please show me the same respect that I show you.

                                                                              • tmo_marissa

                                                                                Re: Slow data on 1 of 2 lines.

                                                                                I'm sorry, patrickphotog. It's a bummer to read that you feel this way; I can assure you after spending over a year working in the Community alongside these two fine users that there's no way that it's their intention to make you feel browbeaten, or to sneer at anything. I honestly believe that they're offering their best explanations or interpretations of possible causes for your issue and answers to your questions about the T&C.
                                                                                I'll reiterate that I'm not able to comment in any legal capacity, but I will forward your feedback. That said, at this point I'm going to lock the thread as it doesn't seem that constructive discourse is happening here. I did send a private message your way -- please take a peek in your inbox and feel free to respond to me directly if you'd like! We do want to see you get assistance with this line, but at this point it's our best recommendation that you reach out to a team with account access to resolve the concern. This issue far surpasses the self-help nature of our forum, and for that limitation, I apologize.

                                                                            • tmo_marissa

                                                                              Re: Slow data on 1 of 2 lines.

                                                                              Hey, folks. I do want to call out that this is a public user forum, and as such, anyone is welcome to step in and help. tidbits and dragon1562 are hands down a few of the most helpful, knowledgeable, and active members of our Community -- they're also customers, like yourself. The Community is intended largely as a peer to peer forum, although there are a few managers like myself here to keep things tidy, friendly, and help when needed. I know that at this point not everyone on the thread is in agreement about the T&C, but I want to be entirely honest and explain that this forum isn't a place where we are able to make legal statements beyond what's provided in said same T&C, or interpret them for you in any official capacity.

                                                                               

                                                                              I wish I could explain what's happening with this line -- but since this is a user forum without a secure platform for account verification, we're not able to take a look for ourselves and see the details. It's a shame that we've been able to resolve this for you on so many occasions, but not permanently. That must be super frustrating, and this issue absolutely needs to be remedied -- but we'll need you to Contact Us and work with a team who can review the account in order to solve the problem here. If it's an account settings issue, then the team should be able to review the notes from your multiple contact points and determine what needs to happen to fix the matter once and for all. It may be that a trouble ticket will need to be filed to report the problem to a higher level of offline support -- that wouldn't surprise me since with all the effort you've put in at this point it seems that if the issue were simple it would have been fixed by now! That's the best avenue to get the eyes of the right folks on this issue.

                                                                              1 of 1 people found this helpful