Really need more specifics on plans

mpitcairn

    I've been with T-Mobile now for about 14 years, almost since they became T-Mobile in the US, and I've generally like how things are run.  I like that the company is creative and customer-focused.  But lately there's getting to be too much possible confusion for me with the plans, with NO real specifics on how the details on those plans work so we can make informed decisions.  I'll use two plans I was considering as an example:

     

    I had the Simple Choice North America plan grandfathered in for $80 for 2 lines w/2GB high speed included.  The current popular deal is the T-Mobile ONE plan, for $100 for 2 lines with no taxes/fees added, unlimited everything.  Simple, right?  On top of that, per the "details", you can enroll in a separate program to get a $10/month credit per line for each that uses under 2GB of data per month.  Nice, so if I use under 2GB per, it's basically the same cost as the old plan.  But it works as a credit, so you won't see it until the 2nd month and beyond.  You also "Use AutoPay to get $5 off your monthly service up to 8 lines", but this should say a $5 surcharge is ADDED in this case if you don't use AutoPay.  I had to have a rep tell me that, and not all of them said it.  And while the Simple Choice Plan states clearly that add'l lines are $10 each, the ONE plan doesn't say how much additional lines are in the information (apparently it's $40).  Basically with these plans, you can't compare the details and the value until you've tried it for a few months because of the lack of details, and then you can't go back to the Simple Choice plan ever if you make the switch.

     

    Also, I purchased an iPhone, and they tried to switch my JUMP plan to the one with AppleCare.  Oh yeah, there are multiple JUMP plans, and they're all a bit unclear.  The main benefit I heard at first was that you could upgrade your phone while you were paying a financed phone and the remaining balance would be waived (as long as you've paid off at least half of it).  Does the half off amount include the money put down, or only the financed portion?  Who knows?  Not many reps seem to, and there's no clear information on the website.  As for the AppleCare, it gets worse.  I used to work for Apple tech support, and these cell carrier promotions were horrible to deal with.  We'd do our best to help, but the carrier always thought Apple would know the answer, and vice versa, and you're often getting sent back and forth to reps who are trying, but don't know.  It lists the details that are the same as AppleCare+ (note, that's not the same as normal AppleCare to Apple reps) for my device.  But it doesn't say if T-Mobile provides those benefits, or it enrolls the device in AppleCare+.  AppleCare+ lasts for 2 years, but no one could tell me how long those amounts applied for the JUMP plan (most T-Mobile reps said as long as you paid for it, but they were probably wrong).  If they enroll you directly in Apple's program, when does the enrollment start?  How do you claim the benefits, through T-Mobile or Apple?  What happens when I cancel the $12/month plan for something that Apple charges a flat $149 fee for my device that lasts 2 years?  Is there an expiration date for the "warranty" T-Mobile is providing on the device, or is it guaranteed as long as you keep JUMP?  I like T-Mobile being creative with programs like this, but it absolutely NEEDS DETAILS that are EASY TO ACCESS.

     

    The overview sections for the Plans & Services are fine.  But they absolutely need a clear, descriptive list of all the specifics of the plans on those pages, too.  Many of the support reps simply refer to those pages themselves, which doesn't help at all.  If an added service is unclear, I can either just decide not to get it or cancel it.  But if that starts happening with the main plans, then canceling means leaving T-Mobile altogether.  Don't make that be because the legalese wasn't just hard to see, but completely inaccessible.

      All replies

      • tidbits

        Re: Really need more specifics on plans

        They do lower the costs on the first 4 lines depending.  When using the website it breaks down the cost per line on the first 4 lines as the total costs per line.  However it's always the first line is more expensive and each line added is reduced in price to match the total amount.  On the Bill it will show for example mine is $160 for 4 lines which breaks down $40 per line if I canceled lines the price will go up because you lose the multi line discount where lines 5-12 are $25 each.

         

        any money down counts towards the 50%.  So let's say the phone costs $100 for simplistic sake.  You put down $20.  To hit the 1/2 point you need to put in an additional $30.

         

        Apple care applies to the device up until the 2 years is up, stop paying for Jump, or you get rid of the device.  It's kind of obvious when you think about it. Why would a carrier pay for Apple care and then allow someone to  cancel something to recoup  the costs?  It would be a no brainer for a person not to add jump for 30 days to get Apple Care.

          • mpitcairn

            Re: Really need more specifics on plans

            You can make educated guesses about a lot of those issues, but that's still not the same as having it simply spelled out.  I can see not advertising the $10/line off too readily, but they used basically the same description for that, and the $5 "less" that you pay for AutoPay.  That is not good.  Same as the money down, it wouldn't be hard to simply put a line there saying it so everyone is clear.  Otherwise some rep at a store might say that half of the financed amount has to be paid off, whether they think it's true or not.

             

            And that last part you added is far from obvious... I'm not even sure what you're talking about.  That is one thing I noticed with it being easily canceled, that someone could only pay for it for a short time, so T-Mobile paying Apple $150, or even a portion of that, might not work out.  I also read one post on here with someone talking about going to Apple for support, got a replacement, then T-Mobile's system had a problem because they didn't have the info on the updated phone.  There is no link, no brochure, no rep that you can talk to in the store/on the phone/on chat that could tell me decisively who to call if I have the JUMP plan and something goes wrong.  You just have to guess and deal with the consequences.  And I know as an ex-Apple rep that there are consequences if you have third-parties (including cell carriers) do any type of repair and then try and get Apple's help, even if you have their plan.

              • tidbits

                Re: Really need more specifics on plans

                mpitcairn wrote:

                 

                You can make educated guesses about a lot of those issues, but that's still not the same as having it simply spelled out. I can see not advertising the $10/line off too readily, but they used basically the same description for that, and the $5 "less" that you pay for AutoPay. That is not good. Same as the money down, it wouldn't be hard to simply put a line there saying it so everyone is clear. Otherwise some rep at a store might say that half of the financed amount has to be paid off, whether they think it's true or not.

                 

                And that last part you added is far from obvious... I'm not even sure what you're talking about. That is one thing I noticed with it being easily canceled, that someone could only pay for it for a short time, so T-Mobile paying Apple $150, or even a portion of that, might not work out. I also read one post on here with someone talking about going to Apple for support, got a replacement, then T-Mobile's system had a problem because they didn't have the info on the updated phone. There is no link, no brochure, no rep that you can talk to in the store/on the phone/on chat that could tell me decisively who to call if I have the JUMP plan and something goes wrong. You just have to guess and deal with the consequences. And I know as an ex-Apple rep that there are consequences if you have third-parties (including cell carriers) do any type of repair and then try and get Apple's help, even if you have their plan.


                The person who had a problem used Apple for a WARRANTY exchange, and requesting an unlock or doing a jump and had NOTHING to do with Apple care. This has been a long standing problem no matter what carrier the person is with.  Apple doesn't tell carriers a warranty exchange has been done and since it isn't in the system.  I used to work for Apple as well, and even their own policies are cryptic, and we also have long standing policies we are not allowed to tell outside people or avoid that conversation altogether.  I will tell you now Apples own warranty system is the most broken system I have ever worked with.  For example.  Have a problem carrier exchange on devices Apple refurbs as part of the contractual agreement forced onto them to sell devices.  When carriers do the exchange they don't have a way to tell Apple we fulfilled your warranty.  This also happens in reverse.  Then on top of that you have to considered a new and widely unknown policy called Reseller Flex policy...  Not even a lot of their current staff know about this are been told to deny or avoid talking about the policy which has been a pain for a lot of people the past 3 years.

                 

                This all stems for Apple not having a plan and venues to do said plans all while forcing everyone to comply with what they want to sell their products.  It's always been a peeve of mine with them, and one of the reasons why I left them years ago.

                 

                As far as 50% of the device amount being paid off to jump.  The phone cost $500 you have to pay $250 to be 1/2 way.  If you put down $100 then you are $150 away from $250.  Sometimes how you load the question may confuse people and in turn confuse yourself.

                  • mpitcairn

                    Re: Really need more specifics on plans

                    In any case, I'd say it's a bit of a problem that there aren't clear links to the rules and restrictions of all the plans & services.  I'm not the suing type, but not having that basic contract readily available for people on demand is pretty shaky legal ground.  I guess T-Mobile takes the no contract thing quite seriously . In some ways I wouldn't mind a transaction where as long as you pay the amount at that time, and receive the basic service, you can just go your way without ramifications.  But even then, it still helps to know what you're buying even a month at a time.  I'm just honestly having a hard time figuring that out, and it seems the phone and store reps are, too.

              • tmo_marissa

                Re: Really need more specifics on plans

                Hey, mpitcairn! Thanks for trusting us with your service for all this time -- and thank you for taking the time to post your feedback here! Before I jump into this too deeply, I want to make sure I understand your concern -- are you looking for more details on T-Mobile.com, My-T-Mobile, or here in our documents on the Support site?

                 

                 

                - Marissa

                  • mpitcairn

                    Re: Really need more specifics on plans

                    Hi Marissa,

                     

                    I'm really looking for more details anywhere.  The terms & conditions aren't really clear on a few of the plans, and even all of the support people I've talked to so far can't give answers to questions that will probably come up quite a bit.  There are some details on some of the plans in this support site, but only after people ask questions.  I was saying that I think they should be spelled out in the most obvious places.  Especially in the pages detailing the plans, they should either be spelled out, or put a link that points to a terms & conditions document.  Right now, the best information they have are a few bullet points for the plans, but it leaves a lot of questions unanswered.

                  • miket

                    Re: Really need more specifics on plans

                    I have to agree w. the OP.   We have 6 lines on the original SC plan, 2G fast data/line.   (Lines avg. 500Mb-1G data/mo.)

                    Pricing was/is simple - first line $50, 2nd line $30, lines 3-10 -- $10 each). 

                     

                      TM One plan pricing IS complicated.  I can't figure it out either.   Also, TM will give you a credit of $10 per line a month for each month that the line doesn't exceed 2G of data.   I didn't see @Tidbits pricing of $40 each for lines 1-4 and $25/line after that.   (Didn't really see any "per line" pricing.)

                       Assuming he is right - 6 lines would cost $210.  Assuming we get 6 x $10 credit for staying under 2G of data on all lines net cost would be $150.

                        Am I missing something?   As the OP mentioned, is the real cost $5/line more if you don' use autopay because TM's pricing has autopay built in?

                        Our SC plan lets us pay w.o. giving TM permission to raid our bank account.   (I would never give any creditor access to my bank account.)

                          So -- our 6 lines costs $120 + approx $30 in "fees/taxes" = $150.   

                          I must be missing something.  Price is the SAME!  And if I gave TM access to bank account - we'd save $30 w. "autopay"!

                     

                      

                         

                        The main advantage for us would be faster data when overseas.

                        

                        Question - if you go on autopay, can you use a credit card?  

                     

                    Thanks.

                      • tmo_marissa

                        Re: Really need more specifics on plans

                        miket, here's what I'm seeing on our side for current T-Mobile ONE tax inclusive pricing.
                        Two lines are $130, $120 with AutoPay. Additional lines are $25 each, or $20 with AutoPay. Six lines are $230 monthly, or $200 monthly with AutoPay.

                        KickBack could save you $10 per line using less than 2GB in a given month -- so potentially, $60. At that point, your monthly price would be $170, or $140 with AutoPay.

                        Bear in mind this is basic pricing, and doesn't include adding ONEPlus ($10 per line) or ONEPlus International ($25 per line) to any lines. I know you travel frequently, so the latter especially may be interesting to you.
                        When I pull up AutoPay options in MyT-Mobile, I have the choice to use a bank account or card!

                         

                        - Marissa

                          • miket

                            Re: Really need more specifics on plans

                            Marissa -

                             

                            THANKS for the DETAILED response.

                               One more minor question -  we might want to make use of the faster data speeds offered on the TMOnePlus service.  I assume that could just be added to one line and just for the period it is needed??   The same phone(s) aren't always overseas - 1 or 2 may be gone next month for 3 weeks, and another 2 months later for a couple weeks..

                              • tmo_marissa

                                Re: Really need more specifics on plans

                                Oooh, good question! The ONE Plus and ONE Plus International add-ons are per-line, so you can pick and choose who's going to benefit from it and only add the feature to that line/those lines. It is a non-prorated service, though, so when it's added, the full monthly cost is billed. You could definitely add it at the beginning of the billing cycle where line X will be travelling, and then remove it at the end of that cycle, but it can't be set up for a certain number of weeks.

                                 

                                - Marissa