All data on duplicate SIM counting towards Hotspot usage. Why?

casualobserver89

    Problem: All data is being recorded as Hotspot Usage when using duplicate SIM in phone.

     

    Observation: When I put my primary SIM into my AT&T or T-Mobile branded phone, all data usage is allocated properly between phone data and tethering. However, when I put my DIGITS SIM into an AT&T or T-Mobile branded phone,  ALL data is allocated as tethering usage. I downloaded a 200MB file from Chrome and watched 200MB worth of video on YouTube with my duplicate SIM. When I looked on the T-Mobile App,  my tethering usage increased by 400MB

     

    I primarily use this SIM to stream movies, from sites such as Netflix. If all my data usage is being allocated as tethering/Hotspot usage,  this violates T-Mobile's Terms of Service. I use well over 28GB per month and I can't have 90% of my usage showing as false tethering/Hotspot.

     

    Question: is T-Mobile going to fix this glitch anytime soon?

      All replies

      • tmo_kendra

        Hello casualobserver89 thank you for reaching out to us and participating in DIGITS. I understand that this would be convenient if data usage would not be pulled from the data bucket that the primary line has. However, what you are experiencing is how the program was designed to work. Thank you for your time!

          • casualobserver89

            Im not sure you understand the problem. The usage is NOT being pulled from the data bucket,  but rather the Hotspot bucket. For instance,  if my data bucket is unlimited but my Hotspot is limited to 7GB,  then this means I can only use my DIGITS SIM for 7GB then it doesn't work anymore.

             

            For further clarity,  why does watching Netflix on my DIGITS SIM count as tethering/mobile hotspot instead of being counted as normal data? I am NOT tethering my phone to any device but it is counting data as if I am tethering.

              • tmo_chris

                I can definitely see where you are coming from and we do appreciate you feedback on this. At this time, the way that the data is being recorded is correct. The setup for the beta is that data usage on a duplicate line pulls from the primary line’s data bucket. This translates to the tethering bucket for unlimited data users. If the primary line has a unlimited high-speed bucket, duplicate data will draw from the primary’s tethering bucket. When the tethering bucket is used, the duplicate will still have unlimited data but at a lower speed.


                With that said, this is still in beta so we are still trying to figure out the best way to manage usability of DIGITS and control of data usage. We welcome all feedback as it helps us mold and shape the program to fit as many use cases as possible.

                  • alphawave

                    What is 'a unlimited high speed bucket'? How big is this bucket? Is it a bottomless bucket? Does this bucket have no sides?

                     

                    It would have been handy for this to have been communicated, in some fashion, BEFORE we have exceeded our 'tethering bucket' (50% of usage on device versus tethering), don't you think? Now you have a few DIGITS testers with excessive tethering, who inadvertently violated your own TOS, after simply treating their second device as a 'duplicate'.

                    • cribbins

                      If it isn't mentioned anywhere that using data on the duplicate line is taken out of the tethering bucket, how on earth are we supposed to know?

                        • tidbits

                          I mentioned in another thread even if it wasn't stated by FAQ.

                           

                          Do you really think T-Mobile is going to hand unlimited to all the sims? That is asking for abuse doing so where a person can get a few extra sims and share unlimited data with whomever they choose. I figured they would do some sort of throttling or a data limit of some sort.

                            • cribbins

                              tidbits wrote:

                              I mentioned in another thread even if it wasn't stated by FAQ.

                              Do you really think T-Mobile is going to hand unlimited to all the sims? That is asking for abuse doing so where a person can get a few extra sims and share unlimited data with whomever they choose. I figured they would do some sort of throttling or a data limit of some sort.

                               

                              ====

                              This is a beta program, they will charge in the future for duplicate sims. So your point isn't really valid.

                               

                              Whatever they decide, it should be written down for people to read.

                               

                              This should be in the FAQ.

                               

                              It is far too common for t-mobile employees on places like Reddit and here, giving the wrong information, because they themselves don't even know how plans are supposed to work.

                               

                              An up to date FAQ helps them too, as well as us.

                                • tidbits

                                  Exactly where did they say they'll charge for the use of multiple sims.

                                   

                                  FYI they have this feature in Europe and there's no real difference than what they have in Europe. They charge $5 for the service and they don't offer unlimited data for those services. I frequently travel there and have family there. Even had a whole thread about this a few years back.

                                    • cribbins

                                      tidbits wrote:

                                      Exactly where did they say they'll charge for the use of multiple sims.

                                      FYI they have this feature in Europe and there's no real difference than what they have in Europe. They charge $5 for the service and they don't offer unlimited data for those services. I frequently travel there and have family there. Even had a whole thread about this a few years back.

                                       

                                      They are testing a feature that they will charge for in the future. They are a business that wants to make money. Why else would they do it.

                                       

                                      No abuse at all.

                                       

                                      It says they will charge for it, right next to the section that says any data used will come from the hotspot allowance. <- joke of course.

                                       

                                      Europe is very different. And as you said, they charge for it.

                                        • tidbits

                                          Also like I said they don't offer unlimited data... They have a pool of data that is 5x their average for basic data because it gives room for abuse...

                                            • cribbins

                                              No one is abusing anything here.

                                               

                                              Nothing is being given away.

                                               

                                              This is a beta test.

                                               

                                              When the product launches for sale, they will make a profit.

                                               

                                              And not sure why you brought up unlimited data. They sell products with the words 'unlimited data', so not sure what you're on about there, nothing to do with anything here.

                                                • tidbits

                                                  People WILL abuse if given the option. They are nipping it from the start. They are not going to give unlimited unfettered access to every unlimited data plan on multiple devices. That's asking for a world of hurt not doing so.

                                                  You may not abuse it but that doesn't mean ever Tom and Harry planning to use digits for that sole purpose.

                                                  • tidbits

                                                    You brought up the terms... Terms for unlimited data is for 1 specific device, not one device and whatever addition you expect to add. That's like someone allowing you to let your horse drink from the pond, but they never said anything about your sheep, cattle, and horses because they let them on the land.

                                                      • alphawave

                                                        The salient point is TMO DIGITS failed to inform users, specifically, how data would be drawn from the main line in the manner that it does. This resulted is some users inadvertently violating the TOS pertaining to tethered usage exceeding 50% of device usage. This is easily correctable by simply being transparent, and including it in the FAQ's, thus setting appropriate expectations for the customer.

                                                          • tidbits

                                                            It'w called a beta for multiple reasons. Things will change... Doesn't just mean the software itself. The policies can change as well. I would expect them to change as things go by.

                                                             

                                                             

                                                            I honestly expect them to make it One plan only and all duplicate Sims will run 3G data because tethering is 3G data.

                                                              • alphawave

                                                                My point, in case you miss it, is to INFORM users of the 'policies' that apply to them currently, so we can make INFORMED decisions and GIVE FEEDBACK on our experience with this beta. It's always harder to explain away a fault many times than simply expose the truth up front.

                                                                  • uptownj

                                                                    Alphawave,

                                                                     

                                                                    When I signed up I was informed of the policy. The policy is as follows: You will have the same unlimited data on your duplicate sim as you would on your primary sim. You will still be able to use hotspot and it is not going to come off the hotspot data. So they clearly told me what to expect. Reality: That is not the case. (you have a valid argument)

                                                                     

                                                                    I won't dismiss your frustration. It's valid. I am willing to overlook this snafu on my end. Neither of us are right or wrong in our reactions. I found this thread helpful so thank you for reporting it.

                                                                     

                                                                    -------------------------------------------------


                                                                    Now onto how I feel about the situation. This is an example of the left hand not speaking to the right hand. From the beginning the customer service representatives were not given full information. I am willing to overlook it though. (others may choose not to) If I use an Agile product development approach, I understand that development and testing happens concurrently. (Initially I was upset and called it an Alpha but then I started learning agile and my views have changed.)

                                                                     

                                                                    @tmo_Kendra @tmo_chris I have 2 user stories for T-Mobile's product development team:

                                                                    • UptownJ wants to be able to use the duplicate SIM data separately from tethering data so that... he can continue to use his Laptop and iPad without any issues.
                                                                    • UptownJ want to use the duplicate SIM phone to watch YouTube videos using the BingeOn feature so that... he does not have to worry about data limitations on that phone.

                                                                     

                                                                    Thanks for listening.

                                                                     

                                                                    UptownJ

                                                                      • alphawave

                                                                        Thanks uptown

                                                                        In on One TE until I can go TI, (also a Digits 'gotcha', btw, as I now have to wait for system compatibility ) so I don't have Binge On to worry about. But I agree with you the duplicate line should NEVER impact the main line's usage in any fashion. I need/rely on the main line to run my business, and I suspect the appeal of Digits to get important business calls on any given device should outweigh the potential to cause the line to suffer unintended consequences due to misleading or unclear policies. TMobile demonstrates a continuous neglect in transparency across plans, promotions and even TForce customer service, forcing many to consult executive care or BBB complaints to get resolve. All avoidable by reducing legal jargon and simply advancing clear concise policies/FAQ's setting proper expectations. Anything less is a disservice. Cheers!

                                                                          • uptownj

                                                                            @Alphaville

                                                                             

                                                                            Woah. Woah! Hold on. You completely twisted that. My reply was meant to be diplomatic. You see. This is why there is internet trolling. This right here. Where my bible? Jesus grant me patience.

                                                                             

                                                                            I was offering an observation, based on supposition, of the testing and development method being used. i wanted to show empathy to your frustration and offer tmobile constructive feedback.

                                                                             

                                                                            If I were to rate my level of annoyance on a scale of 1 (not annoying) to 20 (steam from ears angry) it would be a 3. I do this because it's fun. I could be wrong about their development methodology. It doesn't matter. I am glad to be part of the BETA and to offer my experience. I don't want a cookie at the end. I like the experience. Good bad and ugly.

                                                                             

                                                                            IT didn't start off well for me but that is now in the past. All these little bugs are fine. I had an SMS issue. Didn't bother me at all. I was only annoyed this time because I'm work full time and in school. It kind of sucked this past week but honestly. It's not tmobiles fault that two professors are bombarding me with 20 hours of material eaCh. I shouldn't have to be checking in during work for online courses. 40 hours of wrk and 40 hours for two coursss. It's got nothing to do with T-Mobile that I went through my data.  That's on my university.

                                                                             

                                                                            I Encourage you to consider the implications of remaining on the DIGITS program. You have written some great thread feedback and I'd hate to see you leave. However if it's going make you this angry then maybe it's not the best time to be on the program. You've always seemed astute. So it's up to you.

                                                                              • alphawave

                                                                                No worries I didn't misconstrue anything you said. My frustration lies with the perennial lack of transparency shown by T-Mobile, and the fallout customers needlessly suffer as a result. Easily preventable, company culture or bureaucracy notwithstanding. Be fair, be clear...Not that difficult. Annoyed, yes...Angry..Naww. Oh and Alphaville was a hokie 80's outfit, a one hit ( or two) wonder. LOL! Cheers!

                                                        • casualobserver89

                                                          And just like the other thread,  you lose all credibility when you state that using a duplicate SIM in a phone isn't considered on-phone usage. That duplicate SIM in my second phone must be some powered by magical pixie dust.

                                                • azdreamscape

                                                  I'm not seeing any way to distinguish 'hotspot data' from 'regular data' anywhere on any of my devices or in the accounting on/in My Account.

                                                  What am I missing?

                                                  I want to be annoyed/peeved/outraged too!

                                                  • naoto

                                                    i made a post similar to this topic back in december.  i was under the assumption that my duplicate sim would also have unlimited data.  it would be nice if binge on or music freedom applied to the duplicate sim for me, since i use this sim mainly to stream music at work.

                                                    • tmo_amanda

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                                                      This thread was the product of our fantastic collaborators during DIGITS Beta! As many terms have changed and bugs have been exterminated since the Beta launched, the information here may no longer be accurate. If you still have a question, please search our active threads or ask a new question in the DIGITS space!