Lumia 950 and 950 XL

    Is T-Mobile going to offer the new Lumia 950 and 950 XL?

    Please, don't make me go back to ATT just to get a new WP!

      All replies

      • sneakymoose

        Re: Lumia 950 and 950 XL

        T-Mobile doesn't have any current plans to carry it, though that could change.

         

        Microsoft will be selling the phones directly from their own stores. They are sold unlocked and are compatible with T-Mobile. However, I haven't yet found out whether the phones will support Wi-Fi Calling with T-Mobile.

          • tidbits

            Re: Lumia 950 and 950 XL

            Legere said they wanted to carry it, but MS hasn't even talked about it.

            • tidbits

              Re: Lumia 950 and 950 XL

              They will not without the correct hooks into the OS for security reasons for wifi calling. Apple made the changes and why they all have wifi calling now. MS could do the same.

              • tidbits

                Re: Lumia 950 and 950 XL

                The plot thickens. Legere said they wanted. Now seems MS is admitting exclusivity to AT&T.

                The plot thickens...

                http://pocketnow.com/2015/10/09/microsoft-lumia-950-att-exclusivity

                  • sneakymoose

                    Re: Lumia 950 and 950 XL

                    tidbits, consider another viewpoint: https://www.thurrott.com/mobile/windows-phone/6746/your-fear-of-limited-lumia-availability-is-misplaced

                     

                    I understand how T-Mobile implemented WFC in non-iPhones. Apple implemented support for ePDG in more recent iPhone models and T-Mobile supports this as a mechanism for implementing Wi-Fi Calling. It's actually superior to the custom IMS implementation done for older Android and Windows Phone handsets, because it can seamlessly roam calls between networks (cellular and Wi-Fi).

                     

                    Here is more info:

                     

                    http://www.ericsson.com/res/thecompany/docs/publications/ericsson_review/2015/er-wifi-calling.pdf

                     

                    Android was supposed to add this support in 5 dot something but it got supposedly delayed until 6.0. I don't know if they got it done or not, in the new Marshmallow devices. Hopefully they did.

                     

                    All I wanted to know was whether Microsoft has done the same (implement support for ePDG) in Windows 10 Mobile, thus enabling Wi-Fi Calling on their carrier unbranded devices like the 950 and 950XL. And I'd like to know if my older Lumia 925 and HTC 8X will retain/obtain WFC capability once upgraded to Windows 10 Mobile.

                      • sneakymoose

                        Re: Lumia 950 and 950 XL

                        BTW, I disagree with Paul Thurrott's statement,

                         

                        I didn’t discuss T-Mobile or Sprint with Microsoft, but their fates are pretty clear: T-Mobile is on the friendly side, if not as friendly as AT&T, and Sprint is effectively dead.

                         

                        I have a hard time seeing how T-Mobile is on the "friendly side" with Microsoft. They have been abhorrent stewards for Windows Phone from WP7 onward.

                        • tidbits

                          Re: Lumia 950 and 950 XL

                          For wifi calling thar further prover my point. Apple and Google has done what is needed to get it to work. They put the hooks in. You don't even know if MS has done it or not. Until MS does windows phone will not have wifi calling.

                           

                          Fact of the matter is MS said one thing. Legere said something that contradicts it and then MS recanted their statement. That's why I said the plot thickens. Legere says they are interested and MS won't talk to them.

                            • Re: Lumia 950 and 950 XL

                              We have both a Lumia 640 and a 925, and both support WiFi calling via IMS just fine. And HD Voice as well.

                               

                              I have it on good authority (from a fellow Lumia Lover who is also a Windows Insider, previewing Windows 10) that WiFi Calling is not currently working in Windows 10 but that MS has an open bug against it and is working to fix that bug.

                               

                              What this tells me is that _one_ of the Windows phones (if not the 950/950XL then perhaps the lower-end 550?) will support IMS calling and, since that is the method T-Mo uses, it must at least plan to allow Lumias on the network even if there aren't any plans to re-sell them.

                                • tidbits

                                  Re: Lumia 950 and 950 XL

                                  Again that's speculation, but I digress.  All devices that it does work on there is an agreement prior to making to work.  It still needs to hooks and those security hooks are proprietary.  MS uses them without permission is liable for lawsuits and it will be easy to prove hence the talks and agreements.

                                   

                                  WiFi calling could work and they are making it a default type but doesn't mean it will work.  For all we know the hooks are specifically tied to AT&T who just recently got approval for WiFi calling by the FCC. 

                                   

                                  It is safe to assume it will not work until MS says it will work for T-Mobile(which they have not said let alone answer the question).  If they know it'll work why not say it will to bolster potential sales?  Think about it.

                                    • Re: Lumia 950 and 950 XL

                                      Microsoft licenses IMS from Movial directly so they can include it in their devices (Surface Pro and Lumia phones).

                                       

                                      They are currently working to fix a bug which is preventing it from working properly on Win 10.

                                       

                                      I can't speculate on any other things; I just don't know - but those facts stand as they are.

                                        • tidbits

                                          Re: Lumia 950 and 950 XL

                                          Listen to exactly what I am saying very closely.

                                           

                                          Doesn't matter where they get their licensing from.  What matters is the SECURITY hooks.  Without T-Mobiles approval no one can use those hooks.

                                           

                                          Safe to assume they don't work over they are working.  MS could say if it does or not as they are the ones who wrote  the code right?  They would know better than anyone else.  They say depending on operator instead of giving a list because they know they may have the technology, but may not have all the hooks.  They know what it supports, but keeps quiet because it may deter sales if it isn't supported.

                                          • sneakymoose

                                            Re: Lumia 950 and 950 XL

                                            Can you cite your source with regards to an IMS driver in Surface Pro? It doesn't even have a cellular modem.

                                             

                                            I have the impression that Movial IMS is licensed by T-Mobile and not Microsoft (nor Nokia or HTC, whose phones also included the Movial IMS drivers at various points). For instance, see the top paragraph here:

                                             

                                            the-ims-open-source-project-for-android - ... - Google Project Hosting

                                             

                                            My expectation is that Windows 10 mobile includes support for Voice over Wi-Fi (VoWiFi) which is part of the modern LTE standards. It relies on Evolved Packet Data Gateway (ePDG) protocols which T-Mobile already supports on their end for some other devices (later model iPhones). I flat out asked Microsoft if they are supporting VoWiFI and ePDG in the 950 and 950XL and was told that they do.

                                             

                                            This newer approach is far superior to the Movial IMS implementation as it supports higher quality audio and seamless transfers between networks.

                                              • Re: Lumia 950 and 950 XL

                                                "security hooks?" What?

                                                 

                                                Sorry, I've been an embedded systems coder and software engineer for almost 40 years now including several years working for "Old Motorola" in late-90's to early 00's, and I have no idea what you're talking about.

                                                 

                                                WiFi calling is a combination of specs from GSMA and 3GPP and is nothing more than VoIP (using SIP and SPP), tunneled through intervening networks via standard protocols (IKEv2 with AES encryption). If your phone has a working copy of the embedded code for this feature, and you have a valid account with a carrier supporting it, you can connect to WiFi calling. It's that simple (or complex, depending on your level of involvement). The auth handshake is not any more complex than making an "HTTPS" connection with your browser over SSL/TLS.

                                                 

                                                Several vendors make versions of it. Movial is only one of said vendors. The code is placed in the "vendor-private" part of the ROM, which includes the RIL and Qualcomm's (or whoever made the chipset's) custom drivers.

                                                 

                                                There's nothing super-secret about any of this. There are even open-source versions of this code available for Android (as sneakymoose has pointed out).

                                                 

                                                Microsoft is fixing this in Windows 10. There have been several patches in the Windows Insider drops for Lumia phones. Not fixed yet but they're still working on it.

                                                 

                                                Oh, and btw - you can make this connection over WiFi without having a cellular radio - as long as your WiFi chipset (Broadcom? etc.) is certified to cooperate with IMS and EPC.

                                                 

                                                And no, I can't reveal my sources, I'll not get them in trouble. Suffice to say, I know a lot of people at MSFT and one who works for Movial. Yeah, it's hearsay evidence if I ever go to court. So what?

                                                  • tidbits

                                                    Re: Lumia 950 and 950 XL

                                                    Yes I am aware of all that... I hope if they do in fact doesn't work that you'll reimburse all that took your information as fact.

                                                     

                                                    The fact MS unwillingness to tell you it works or not is a dead giveaway, or they could at least have a list of showing what carriers it will work with instead of ask your provider... They know right?

                                                     

                                                    Safe to assume no unless verified in writing is always the best and safest motto.

                                                      • adam1991

                                                        Re: Lumia 950 and 950 XL

                                                        So the 950XL is out in peoples' hands, and it in fact does not support wifi calling.

                                                         

                                                        Nor does it have visual voicemail.

                                                         

                                                        Frankly, the 950XL as it stands today is NOT a good T-Mobile citizen and cannot be recommended for T-Mobile customers.

                                                          • tidbits

                                                            Re: Lumia 950 and 950 XL

                                                            So I was right... I'll be darned :)

                                                              • adam1991

                                                                Re: Lumia 950 and 950 XL

                                                                What's interesting is that the OTHER current unlocked manufacturer-sold flagship release, the Blackberry Priv (built on Android), launched a week or two earlier with complete T-Mobile support for WFC and visual voicemail.

                                                                 

                                                                Not only that, but the CFO of T-Mobile actively addressed these very concerns immediately prior to the launch, assuring everyone that the Priv had full T-Mobile support and integration right out of the box.  And when you put a T-Mo SIM in, voila--it's all there.

                                                                  • tidbits

                                                                    Re: Lumia 950 and 950 XL

                                                                    Like I said before BB was talking to T-Mobile much like Apple and Google did. Microsoft ADMITTED after Legere called them out about it. Since MS isn't talking everything that is required isn't going to be there.

                                                                      • Re: Lumia 950 and 950 XL

                                                                        This story of "talking" between MS and T-Mobile seems a bit fishy :-). Unlocked iPhones support wi-fi calling without any intervention: go to settings, turn it on. I guess what we are all asking is simply: can the same be done on the lumia 950?

                                                                          • sneakymoose

                                                                            Re: Lumia 950 and 950 XL

                                                                            I bought the 950 a few days ago and put a new T-Mobile SIM in it. No Wi-Fi Calling, and no visual voice mail, unfortunately. I'm hopeful that Microsoft and T-Mobile get this straightened out, but am also doubtful.

                                                                              • adam1991

                                                                                Re: Lumia 950 and 950 XL

                                                                                Never count on them straightening it out.  Never count on people promising anything on your phone with regard to software updates.  (For a great example of that, look up the Mitsubishi Promise Module and their high end TV sales tactic of "this is the last TV you will ever buy, we promise to keep the technology current for life".)

                                                                                 

                                                                                My guess is, at best this'll be another "buy the T-Mobile version and have everything on it" situation.  Worst case, T-Mo will just ignore it.  Although, one wonders why they gave all the love to the Blackberry Priv up front, such that it launched with full T-Mo support, and none at all to the 950 family.

                                                                                 

                                                                                I love unlocked phones and live tiles, but I wanted a flagship phone--and complete integration with T-Mobile was a requirement for me, including wifi calling, visual voicemail, band 12, and VoLTE. When I discovered 950 family wasn't it right now, I chose to wait.  I was also considering the only unlocked phone on the market that has everything once you put a T-Mobile SIM into it:  Blackberry Priv.  $700.

                                                                                 

                                                                                But then I found, locally, someone selling a brand new T-Mobile LG V10 for $300.  I snagged it.  I couldn't not.  And while I really, really miss my live tiles, that's the tradeoff I have to deal with.  I'll give up live tiles for T-Mobile integration, given that I wanted a flagship phone.

                                                                                  • tidbits

                                                                                    Re: Lumia 950 and 950 XL

                                                                                    read my reply. Simply because BB TALKED to T-Mobile and worked WITH them to make sure it worked out of the box.  Apple, and Google did the same thing as well.  MS already acknowledged they are not talking to T-Mobile.  That's the REASON.  I am willing to put some money down talks will start soon for the Surface phone.  The 950/XL is nothing more than a showcase device for Windows 10.  They knew they couldn't get the surface phone out this year, and they had the 950/XL in their portfolio.  They are not going to spend the time and resources on a quick throw the device out there.  That's the real phone I am waiting for.

                                                                                      • adam1991

                                                                                        Re: Lumia 950 and 950 XL

                                                                                        yeah, I can see taking a close look at the Surface Phone.  I can't imagine, though, that it'll be out as soon as they say--April?  That's way too soon after the 950 family launch.

                                                                                         

                                                                                        Alas, I just spent the weekend getting my V10 set up just so.

                                                                                         

                                                                                        You know, one of the things I truly liked about Windows Phone 8.1 was that backups were easily restored and my entire layout was retained.  Worst case I had to re-enter some passwords and do some setup, but I was able to restore to a replacement phone and all my configurations and apps were there.

                                                                                          • sneakymoose

                                                                                            Re: Lumia 950 and 950 XL

                                                                                            For me, it was difficult to decide what phone would replace my Lumia 925. I actually put together a spreadsheet "trade study" to help me score my options, once I'd narrowed them down to these: iPhone 6s 64GB, Lumia 950, Lumia 950XL, Nexus 5X, Moto X Pure, and HTC One A9.

                                                                                             

                                                                                            Anyway, the Lumia 950 ranked highest (for me) so I went ahead and bought it. I have some reservations about the purchase, but what it boils down to is, none of the current offerings meet all of my needs and preferences, so I have to settle no matter what.

                                                                                             

                                                                                            I'm disappointed that Wi-Fi Calling and visual voicemail aren't showing up. However, neither of them were critical needs. I've called 611 to see if it is a white-listing issue that engineering can address, though I am doubtful of whether they will actually look into my request.

                                                                                             

                                                                                            It's puzzling that visual voice mail isn't working, as that did work on a Verizon branded HTC One M8 (Windows) that I've used on T-Mobile in the past. Some Internet searching seems to indicate that it might be because this is a dual SIM phone and for some reason, Microsoft's other dual SIM phones haven't supported visual voicemail, either. I don't know why that would be an issue, but that's what folks are indicating.

                                                                                          • Re: Lumia 950 and 950 XL

                                                                                            Again there is no talking needed. Just implementing different standards. As I said many times, T-mobile is not the only carrier having wi-fi calling. They definitely love to give strange names to standard technology like Band 12 (700 MHz), called "high penetration...something", used in Europe since the beginning of times. VOLTE, another standard technology which is sold as something special. All this fuss of carrier-specific devices happens only in the US market, where carriers have insane control on consumers. Imho FCC should simply force them to share spectrum and publish requirements, without allowing them to ban any device that conforms to those.

                                                                                             

                                                                                            About the Surface Phone, if it will really be based on Atom, it will be likely too big or with a miserable battery life, if no major breakthrough happens on the CPU front. I hope they won't screw up. On the other hand, Continuum on the current phone CPU's won't be that fast either. Maybe they should reconsider and focus on making a phone that is just a phone but works fine, and with tools developers can actually like.

                                                                                             

                                                                                            @adam1991 About the LG V10, how is the battery life? I am really not sure I want to go back to android due to the issues I had with the battery on all my android devices...

                                                                                              • adam1991

                                                                                                Re: Lumia 950 and 950 XL

                                                                                                T-Mobile is like any company, they have to add their own spice to the mix.

                                                                                                 

                                                                                                But the real message is, they are busy implementing worldwide standards instead of creating T-Mobile-only parts.  Their VoLTE and their wifi calling should NOT be difficult to implement, given that they are doing nothing more than implementing a worldwide standard.

                                                                                                  • tidbits

                                                                                                    Re: Lumia 950 and 950 XL

                                                                                                    The security protocols are NOT a standard...  If they were then all carriers that use the same "standard" would have them working out of the box including overseas... which it does not, and even MS has an approved list they share for it. 

                                                                                                    adam1991 wrote:

                                                                                                     

                                                                                                    T-Mobile is like any company, they have to add their own spice to the mix.

                                                                                                     

                                                                                                    But the real message is, they are busy implementing worldwide standards instead of creating T-Mobile-only parts.  Their VoLTE and their wifi calling should NOT be difficult to implement, given that they are doing nothing more than implementing a worldwide standard.

                                                                                                  • tidbits

                                                                                                    Re: Lumia 950 and 950 XL

                                                                                                    Dude read up on it...  So far I was right it will not work out of the box.  So far what I said is correct and what you said is wrong.  The result also proves you wrong.  Reports for Google, Apple, and BB all said including from T-Mobile they were working closely with those manufacturers to bring WiFi-Calling for devices.  Where's the report saying MS doing that with T-Mobile?  Oh we do have Legere saying that MS isn't talking to them, and MS admitting it as well.  Just admit you are wrong. 

                                                                                                     

                                                                                                    Also if you look overseas... Only 3 carriers provide wifi calling and ONLY 1 is supported says Microsoft....  What does that tell you? 

                                                                                                      • sneakymoose

                                                                                                        Re: Lumia 950 and 950 XL

                                                                                                        Tidbits, you've not published trusted sources to corroborate the vast majority of your opinions, so it's difficult for us to draw truth or logic from what you understand to be "correct."

                                                                                                         

                                                                                                        Just sayin'... It's not to say X was right and Y was wrong; I simply haven't been able to follow up your opinions with logic or facts, so I'm unable to arrive at your conclusions. This might explain why others argue with some of your posts.

                                                                                                         

                                                                                                        I don't intend for this to be hurtful, hopefully it is helpful.

                                                                                                        • Re: Lumia 950 and 950 XL

                                                                                                          I never said MS tried to talk to T-Mobile. But I am sorry, you are the one making unsupported claims, not me.

                                                                                                           

                                                                                                          The fact that this situation is specific to the US market is a fact. I am not American, and I experience this type of messy lock-in only in the US.

                                                                                                           

                                                                                                          That band 12 is standard is another fact. It has been used by EU carriers since I can remember.

                                                                                                           

                                                                                                          Google and T-Mobile definitely do not work closely, given that no Nexus device is carried by T-Mobile at the moment, and none of them supports wi-fi calling out of the box, at least based on reports from others.

                                                                                                           

                                                                                                          T-Mobile has done good things in the US, but unfortunately their solutions are sometime of the same type of other carriers. Read: more lock-in, less consumer freedom due to lack of choice of devices that support their Wi-Fi calling, which unfortunately is a must until the coverage reaches better levels. I do not blame them too much because I am well aware of the problems concerning spectrum acquisition and lack of sharing in the US market, but in the end, as a consumer, I want choice, and to have that, I will have to move elsewhere, it seems.

                                                                                                            • theartiszan

                                                                                                              Re: Lumia 950 and 950 XL

                                                                                                              Well that is a bit inaccurate. The nexus 6, 6p, 5x all do support Wi-Fi calling. The 6 didn't for a while but with the Android 6.0 for those devices, Wi-Fi calling is built into the operating system by Google. T-Mobile does actually use a world wide accepted standard for Wi-Fi calling called ims. That is the basis they have had for a while now. The problem is that it can't be installed as a standalone application as it needs to have access to low level hardware for the SIM card verification. The manufacturers and Google didn't want to build it into every phone and is just now taking off with Google. All the different bands of cellular service are world wide accepted standards. But every carrier, including the ones over seas, are not used everywhere else. Just look at the listing of used LTE signals by country. There are many that have bands 12 in Europe but many also do not use that. Many don't even use gsm. It would be great if everyone can use the same signal and the same towers but that does not happen anywhere.

                                                                                                                • Re: Lumia 950 and 950 XL

                                                                                                                  You are correct that not everyone uses GSM in Europe. However the lock-in with devices is minimal compared to the US, and this due to laws and regulations which are stricter. Additionally, the non-GSM carriers are, I would say unusual. I frankly cannot mention a major carrier who is not GSM in the countries I usually visit, and I can only think of one using UMTS.

                                                                                                                  • adam1991

                                                                                                                    Re: Lumia 950 and 950 XL

                                                                                                                    I know 5X and others have had band 12 turned OFF at T-Mobile's request.

                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                    The Nexus line isn't perfect.

                                                                                                                  • tidbits

                                                                                                                    Re: Lumia 950 and 950 XL

                                                                                                                    You said it would work. I said it wouldn't. All reports say it wouldn't. Then you blame everyone else for why it doesn't work when in fact everything you want done revolves around MS not talking to T-Mobile which Apple, Google, and BB has done and there are plenty proof of that. When Apple first introduced it Apple and T-Mobile were in the talks and both said it would work out of the box including the UNLOCKED one. Google Nexus 6 T-Mobile flat out said with changes with Android 6.0 they are working with Google to make it work. BB said they had a open relationship and is working with T-Mobile for their upcoming products. Des from T-Mobile also confirmed that WiFi calling was coming to those devices.  So what did T-Mobile say about MS? Legere flat out called out MS for not talking and they wanted to carry the 950. MS admitted they did not talk to T-Mobile. So what now? It's a no brainer.

                                                                                                                    • tidbits

                                                                                                                      Re: Lumia 950 and 950 XL

                                                                                                                      Are you BLIND.  They do have a CLOSE relationships. How in the world would Project Fi exist if they didn't have a relationship? Also why does Wi-Fi calling work why does VVM for 6.0 work out of the box?  Not to mention you don't even know how the carrier payload system works for Android.  You don't have to sell aa manufacturers device to have an open relationship. The reason why Google isn't selling in carrier stores is because supply has ALWAYS been an issue and thinning it about between multiple carriers made it worse.

                                                                                                                        • tidbits

                                                                                                                          Re: Lumia 950 and 950 XL

                                                                                                                          Nexus 6, 5X, and 6P(all Play Store versions) all have WiFi calling out of the box and also supports internal visual voicemail. There is plenty of screenshots, reports, and users here will tell you it does work out of the box. It even supports switching from WiFi calling to cellular when you leave your WiFi connections. This is coming from a person who has bought the 6, 5X, 6P, and also I have the iPhone 6, and 6S. Notice these are multi carriers device and work on ALL carriers out of the box. US has been this was for the past 3 years, but device manufacturers would rather save money by charging carriers for features and support to reduce overhead.  This is why I hope the Surface phone is like the previous devices I mention. Then I don't have to carry multiple devices just to use my windows phone when I travel. If it doesn't then I will abandon the platform until it does.

                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                          FYI the atom processor isn't that bad. I have had it and it lasts just as long as comparable snapdragon without as much heat being generated. App optimization and also OS optimization matters just as much as the hardware.

                                                                                                                            • Re: Lumia 950 and 950 XL

                                                                                                                              About the Nexus 5x, I am well informed about it too, and the Wi-Fi calling support seems broken to the very least. Many also report it only works when cellular signal is present. For example: Google Groups

                                                                                                                              Initially it didn't support VOLTE either, but apparently it was fixed with an update.

                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                              I have an atom too, and I would not say it is comparable to an ARM architecture for power efficiency at the moment.

                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                              The rest will stay as you believe, because frankly I am not wasting any more time with someone who keeps attacking people who disagrees with him, assuming they are ignorant, calling them blind and using caps, and never citing a source.

                                                                                                                                • tidbits

                                                                                                                                  Re: Lumia 950 and 950 XL

                                                                                                                                  Just because it doesn't work for some users doesn't mean it doesn't work out of the box. If you search every device you'll find users complaining about the same thing on branded devices. So by your logic all devices don't work out of the box including some windows phones that have it.

                                                                                                                                  • tidbits

                                                                                                                                    Re: Lumia 950 and 950 XL

                                                                                                                                    You keep changing your argument when the facts are in your face saying otherwise....  Here's an example of what I am talking about.  GSM is open source.  Please get me the security protocols for all major carriers around the world.  Also get me the GSM encryption keys also.  You will not be able to get them as they are not open sourced. Just because one thing is open source doesn't mean everything is.

                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                    Also here some photos showing Wifi-calling does work on the Nexus 5X.  both in and out of airplane mode.  Also it did have VoLTE for me at least, but of course some people assumed it didn't because it didn't work on their phones for whatever reason.

                                                                                                                                    bdb8f1202baffb7eb4dbbc810ec24394.jpg

                                                                                                                                    4cac6a5c563ef25736caaed2cefa0987.jpg

                                                                                                                                      • Re: Lumia 950 and 950 XL

                                                                                                                                        Actually the fact that initially Nexus 5x and 6p did not support VOLTE is not an assumption, it is a fact, and there are multiple sources for this. As I wrote already, it was addressed in an update. For example, you can see:

                                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                                        http://www.tmonews.com/2015/09/nexus-5x-and-nexus-6p-dont-support-band-12-or-volte-but-google-said-to-be-working-on-it/

                                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                                        [Updated] T-Mobile Says The Nexus 5X And 6P Won't Have Band 12 LTE Support (For Now)

                                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                                        About the security protocols that represent the cornerstone of all your reasoning, they can, and in most of the cases (read: by most carriers) are implemented at SIM level, at least for GSM. So your point on the need of "talking" is, at least for this, unfounded. We could examine the technical details, but it's really not the point in this forum, which was originally on the support of some features on the Lumia 950/950XL. It is clear they won't be supported for now.

                                                                                                                                          • tidbits

                                                                                                                                            Re: Lumia 950 and 950 XL

                                                                                                                                            I have had it working out of the box, but no Band 12 support.  been verified on XDA

                                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                                            Like I said get me those sources then you will debunk what I said, but you will NOT be able to. It is completely founded, and even Europe shows the exact same thing in terms of WiFi-calling as the states so it can't be because of your argument as they follow a different set of rules right?

                                                                                                                                              • Re: Lumia 950 and 950 XL

                                                                                                                                                You mentioned GSM "security protocols", not wi-fi calling, in the message I replied to, which is why I replied that they are dealt with at SIM level. And I did not talk about Wi-Fi calling ever when I mentioned Europe (note that it is quite uncommon there to have a provider offering Wi-Fi calling due to the excellent coverage, partly also due to the different legal framework).

                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                On a device supporting Wi-Fi calling, however, it still unnecessary to tie security to the firmware. It could be done via apps, as T-Mobile was doing for some time.

                                                                                                                                                  • tidbits

                                                                                                                                                    Re: Lumia 950 and 950 XL

                                                                                                                                                    Again get them for me. Like I said before just because something is open source doesn't mean the security is always open source. You keep proving my point every time you don't bring them to me and try to argue your way out of bringing it to me. You can't get them because they are not open source and MUST be given by the respective parties in an open dialog as well as a NDA thrown in the mix. No talks, no NDA,  no code, and here we are no features.

                                                                                                                                                      • Re: Lumia 950 and 950 XL

                                                                                                                                                        The GSM security protocols *can* be managed at SIM level, so there is no need to discuss anything, as long as the device complies with the standard and supports the bands of the carrier. You do not need to know what you are asking for (the security protocols) as long as you implement the standard. The handshake will happen correctly, and the SIM will contain the information the carrier needs, without you knowing it (exactly as you don't know the master encryption key of certificates you use daily, which is not public).

                                                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                                                        Your idea of how the process works to have a phone certified to operate on a public network is just not what it is. The device has to comply with a given standard and to respect FCC (and other agencies, depending on the state) regulations. Other features may be different depending on the carrier, but you confuse GSM with the rest, which is incorrect.

                                                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                                                        In any case, I fixed my problem switching to another carrier. Best of things.

                                                                                                                            • tidbits

                                                                                                                              Re: Lumia 950 and 950 XL

                                                                                                                              albertop78 wrote:

                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                              This story of "talking" between MS and T-Mobile seems a bit fishy :-). Unlocked iPhones support wi-fi calling without any intervention: go to settings, turn it on. I guess what we are all asking is simply: can the same be done on the lumia 950?

                                                                                                                              Like I SAID before Apple, BB, and Google have an OPEN relationship and talk to each other.  MS ADMITTED they are NOT talking to T-Mobile.  There's the DIFFERENCE and there is MORE than just support for it.  It isn't "fishy" at all there had to be talks PRIOR to these devices even getting it working.

                                                                                                          • sneakymoose

                                                                                                            Re: Lumia 950 and 950 XL

                                                                                                            T-Mobile will allow the phones on their network. Their latest response regarding WFC is that they simply don't know if it will work because T-Mobile isn't officially testing them.

                                                                                                             

                                                                                                            Check out the last few posts of this other discussion:

                                                                                                             

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                                                                                                  • mr_l84

                                                                                                    Re: Lumia 950 and 950 XL

                                                                                                    So will a Lumia 950 or 950xl work ok on T-Mobile other than Wi-Fi calling? We're having some problems with my Alcatel OneTouch Fierce XL and my wife's Alcatel Idol S4, both with Windows 10. The Fierce shuts off randomly and has a hard time playing videos. The Idol won't recognize WhatsApp Web's QR code. The 950's have come down in price so I'm tempted to buy them.

                                                                                                     

                                                                                                    Any thoughts or 950 users out there?

                                                                                                      • tidbits

                                                                                                        Re: Lumia 950 and 950 XL

                                                                                                        mr_l84 wrote:

                                                                                                         

                                                                                                        So will a Lumia 950 or 950xl work ok on T-Mobile other than Wi-Fi calling? We're having some problems with my Alcatel OneTouch Fierce XL and my wife's Alcatel Idol S4, both with Windows 10. The Fierce shuts off randomly and has a hard time playing videos. The Idol won't recognize WhatsApp Web's QR code. The 950's have come down in price so I'm tempted to buy them.

                                                                                                         

                                                                                                        Any thoughts or 950 users out there?

                                                                                                        It will work fine other than no Visual Voicemail, No wifi calling, and no VoLTE.  Everything else is fine.  You can call, text, and use data(when on call it will drop to HSPA+(4G).

                                                                                                        1 of 1 people found this helpful
                                                                                                          • mr_l84

                                                                                                            Re: Lumia 950 and 950 XL

                                                                                                            Thanks!

                                                                                                            P.S. I thought that they got visual voice mail working on the 950. Oh well. It never seemed to work right on my Lumia 925.

                                                                                                            I do hope Windows Phone gets resurrected and that T-Mobile will be offering them in the future.