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I read it again, and I notice Chicago has a green circle around it now where a few weeks ago it was still red. The instructions at top say:
Stations that are on track to be relocated have a green service contour around them. Relocation typically takes 6-12 months.
So it will take 6-12 months to have that signal available??
Also, for August I noticed it said:
August 2015
- WKEF (Dayton, OH) and WJAR (Providence, RI) completed relocations and notified the FCC. As of August 2015 T-Mobile can deploy LTE band 12 in the licensed areas covering approximately 187 million people.
That's the message I guess we're waiting for. I just wonder will it actually take 6-12 months, more, or less? It gets more confusing when I read this:
During the auction currently scheduled for mid-2015 early 2016 the stations will have three choices: exit the business, share a channel with some other station or relocate to some other free channel. In the first two cases the station must free channel 51 within 3 months after the end of the auction. In the third case (they choose relocation) the FCC will pick new channels for all stations and develop an individual relocation schedule for each station. The relocation will take 6-39 months.
So is it 6-12 mos or 6-39 months?!!-
Since Tmobile already has the bandwidth in Chicago my guess it's 6-12 months.
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I hope you're right man. lol
Ok so it does have it in place already. I wasn't sure on that front, but thanks!
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Map of T-Mobile's 700 MHz spectrum - Spectrum Gateway
September 2015
- Laser, Inc, 700 MHz A block Chicago area license holder, and Fox Television Stations, licensee of station WPWR-TV, signed a concurrent operations agreement.
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Here's another interesting read.
In October 2013, the FCC took actions that would extend the construction milestones for 700 MHz A-block licensees until December 13, 2016 and create incentives for manufacturers to build LTE wireless devices that operate on a number of lower 700 MHz airwaves, including A-block frequencies. Under the FCC’s order, AT&T agreed, by September 30, 2015, to begin offering devices that support paired spectrum in its lower B- and C-block spectrum (Band 17) and Band 12, which covers the A, B, and C-blocks. AT&T also agreed to provide LTE roaming to carriers that have compatible Band 12 devices. While it is expected that it will take approximately four years for deployment of new software that will allow new unique devices to operate simultaneously on Bands 12 and 17, we believe that the FCC’s order greatly expands the potential utility and demand for 700 MHz A-block spectrum as the market for these interoperable devices grows.
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And that means......??? lol
Do we (T-Mobile) customers already get Band 17 or no?
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Tmobile phones with band 12 should be able to roam on AT&T's network
for free.
Under the FCC’s order, AT&T agreed, by September 30, 2015, to begin offering devices that support paired spectrum in its lower B- and C-block spectrum (Band 17) and Band 12, which covers the A, B, and C-blocks. AT&T also agreed to provide LTE roaming to carriers that have compatible Band 12 devices.
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Oh ok, so they're offering to other carriers like T-Mobile. Nice!!!!
Wait, roam? So it's only for roaming? What about non-roaming??
Thanks for sharing!
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The roaming wouldn't be used against your allotment since AT&T is required to offer
it for free.
So when Tmobile turns on their band 12 and if AT&T has band 17 we should have more
coverage in the Chicago area. I just live about 60 miles south off I-57 so I'm hoping it
will cover some of the gaps of non LTE coverage .
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I see. And despite the September 30, 2015 start date mandated by the FCC, we still have to wait 6-12 months to get it? Or will it be sooner because of this new development?
And do we get Band 17 already? Does AT&T?!
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September 30, 2015 is when AT&T has to start offering roaming for compatible band 12
devices.
Right now I can't find a map of where band 17 is for AT&T.
T-Mobile could gain from AT&T's Band 17 and Band 12 LTE network interoperating » TmoNews
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Interesting. Still sounds complicated, but interesting nonetheless. lol
Thanks again gramps!!
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Hate to be the bearer of bad news guys...
AT&T (via their acquisition of Cricket) owns the 700A block in Chicago still (unless I missed a PR release). My understanding (from reading the interwebz like everyone else) is that selling it is a condition of their merging but from reading above they have until Dec 2016 to do it.
At the same time, they agree to allow band 12 devices to roam on to their network (they are doing some funky stuff when broadcasting their signal to make band 12 devices see their band 17 as band 12 since it is a subset of the band 12). This does not equal FREE roaming, it just means that a device that has band 12 but not band 17 will see band 17 as band 12 and be able to roam where the both parties have negotiated an agreement to allow roaming.
Put more simply, AFAIK T-Mobile does NOT own low band spectrum in Chicago, we'd like it but we'd need to either have someone sell it to us or win it in the upcoming auction. As far as a timeline, based on experience, it seems to take about 6-9 months for agreements to transfer by the feds to get approved once signed after that we'd need to build out the network which would take another 3-6 months probably.
All the agreement that was originally posted means is that the TV company agreed to clearing up the issues with the interference so the spectrum could be used...well could be used if it wasn't required to be sold.
I'm sure if/when we get low band in Chicago you'll see press releases here at News | T-Mobile Newsroom, periscopes from John Legere, spontaneous parades of Magenta across the country, etc. Otherwise, all you're seeing is speculation and armchair quarterbacking from folks
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Chicago would be big news, if it came to pass. I have not heard that AT&T/Leap are selling it to T-Mobile and that would be unlike AT&T, who tends to hold on to any license that might eventually be of use to them or which they'd like to keep away from a competitor. My bet is that they've cleared channel 51 there so that they can use 700A. After all, the FCC made them be compatible with band 12, they might as well make the most of it.
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I thought I read somewhere that was some of the spectrum they received in the failed merger.
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Ryan,
So that map site is saying yes the spectrum is available but no we can't get access to the 700A Band 12 spectrum until December 2016 required sale? If so, why isn't this additional information posted on that map site? It just seems odd to me that the map site, which was created to let us know what's going on, doesn't include the information you're saying regarding that merger. That detail seems VERY important. Instead, it's saying that, pertaining to 700A MHz: Stations that are on track to be relocated have a green service contour around them. Relocation typically takes 6-12 months.
It doesn't mention anywhere on there or down below there about AT&T. So I don't understand why that would be left out? It changes everything b/c that means it will take like 14-15 months, not 6-12.
Ok and also now that I'm reading the top part again, the 6-39 month relocation would have to do with the 600 MHz spectrum, so different spectrum altogether. But that whole section is really all up in the air because what happens at the auction (where we can get 600 MHz AND LOWER spectrum, no 700A) and thereafter will determine how soon and how much 600 MHz spectrum we get. Right now though, I just want to focus on 700A as I'm not even sure which phones are or will be compatible with 600 MHz and lower.
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T-Mobile doesn't control that site, you'd need to check with the owner of it on how they want to to reflect it
There's no guarantees we get the 700A in Chicago, I'm sure we'd love it though since it is compatible with the rest of our 700a elsewhere. Typically, as an aficionado of spectrum stuff not an employee, I've noticed and expect 12 months from the date you see an announcement of a signed deal before you might see consistent band 12 signal.
The way you can look at all the 700A stuff is like this. You're looking to buy a delivery truck to help make more deliveries since your current ones can only drive so far in a day...the type your looking at can drive 2-3x further and cover more area. Trick is there are no new delivery trucks created so you have to buy a used one so you start going around. You know that fair market price for the truck is 15k but other folks know you need a truck so they jack up the price and are like "we'll sell it, we want 30k". So while you want to buy another truck you're not going to overpay.
As for 600mhz, from what I've read the auction starts in March 2016, once it's wrapped you're looking for Q4 2016 for "bands" to even be decided. Some stations, say rural ones will be able to clear their spectrum earlier and big markets will have more work to do. There are only so many actual folks that will climb up a tower to do work so both TV and wireless companies need to use these folks creating a bottleneck. Including handset development timelines you're probably looking at 2018-2020 before 600mhz support phones and networks are readily available.
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Ryan,
Ok thanks. I think I get what you mean? But didn't T-Mobile already buy the 700A spectrum from Verizon last year? So are we for sure gonna get it within 12 or so months?
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I mean, are gonna have this cleared up by then? Cuz we're not actually buying it are we? I thought we were just waiting for it to be available to use in Chicago b/c WPWR Channel 50/51 is using it right now? That's what I don't get, if we bought it, did we buy it for Chicago too or no? If not, then I guess we're buying it from Laser/WPWR??
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We bought 700A from Verizon a while back in SOME markets. If you check out the site you originally shared its only in the Pink areas that we hold licenses for 700A. They cover about 190 million people, of that we've already deployed band 12 covering 165 million (as of last time we reported). We're rapidly deploying and if you check out News | T-Mobile Newsroom you'll see all the announcements around "Extended Range LTE".
700A in the Chicago market is owned by ATT/Cricket. In other markets it's owned by companies like US Cellular, Cavalier, etc. Some other companies have already deployed their networks on 700A so likely they wouldn't sell.
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Too bad you can't purchase it in our area. The company that purchased it is looking for a huge payday... Way more than it is actually worth.
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I think it is worth 25 trillion billion to have sweet coverage in Hawaii. Everyone likes to sit on the beach and use their phones
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tidbits wrote:
Too bad you can't purchase it in our area. The company that purchased it is looking for a huge payday... Way more than it is actually worth.
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The way I understand it, the Chicago license was originally purchased by Leap Wireless. When Leap was purchased by AT&T, this license had to be left behind. A new company, Laser, was formed to handle the sale of the license for the benefit of the Leap shareholders. It is Laser who cleared the channel-51 block and now they are looking for a buyer. I'm sure they have no intention of letting it go cheap.
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Last I heard through the grapevine for the spectrum here they wanted $350M and that doesn't include the other areas they control as well.
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Yea they will get that in their dreams lol, It is so not worth that much especially considering that like most 700 A Block licenses it is only a 5 Mhz channel. The 600 auction starts in March so they better make up their minds by then because if they are sticking to that number TMo will just go after 600 there and won't need the 700a as much then nor will anyone else really especially since really only TMo and a few regional carriers even have any other A Block infrastructure.
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The value of 700 MHz is that it's ready today, not 3 or 4 years down the road.
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The price of 700 will also likely change with the value of 600. It's like trying to selling a car at an auction and other folks are selling their's too. If you have to get rid of it and you price too high, your's doesn't sell. Now the other person's comes up for auction and their's is sold. The power then shifts to the buyer since they can offer you the same amount or less and you pretty much need to take the price since you have to sell. You can wait until the very very last second but you'll still need to sell it.
So using the example above, you want 350 mil but say the 600 auction prices out at 200 mil. You'll be lucky to get an offer of 200 mil, maybe you'll get an offer of 150 mil and end up like 180 mil. Obviously this only applies to stuff with build out requirements or required to be sold by a specific date. At the end of the day you can either build or you can sell and selling at small profit is still better than selling at a loss...but selling at a loss is still better than just surrendering it.
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stevetjr,
I would just prefer T-Mobile had BOTH 600 and 700A, b/c then that means we'll probably have REALLY good reception indoors. As long as they get both and announce it on the T-Mo News site so I can stop guessing lol, it's all good!
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Probably best to just take a nap for about 9-10 months. By then there hopefully should be some news
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Yeah I guess I should. lol
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The time to have gotten really "torqued" about this was when the 700 MHz auction was taking place back in 2008 but then at that time T-Mobile was busy trying to get bought out by AT&T, so that would not have done much good, either.
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Yeah, and back then, T-Mobile didn't have the kind of money it has now, thanks mostly to one very AMBITIOUS CEO. lol
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And the 6B they got from AT&T for the deal falling through lol
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I dunno. No clue. I'm just sayin' they're doin' much better now than before. 2-3 years ago I had Verizon and everyone I knew pretty much that had T-Mobile had bad service, so I never wanted to switch. But then Verizon got greedy and T-Mobile got better................... Feb of 2014 I switched over and never looked back. lol I have great reception in my area (just the downtown indoors thing), so I have no desire to go back now.
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They better not sit on it to long, Braxton Carter (TMo CFO) has said they
will buy 700A where it makes sense. I agree right now they are probably
asking way to much but there aren't to many players that would be
interested in A Block spectrum other than to sit on it for an investment
like a lot of these holding companies that own patches of A Block that
aren't owned or in use by the few larger regional carriers. If Laser waits
until after the auction and T-Mobile gets 600 in Chicago they will have no
reason to pick up the A Block there and Laser could be left holding it so
my guess is a big game of financial chicken.
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Ryan,
Yeah Chicago is not pink, yet. Yeah I guess best thing to do is just wait for the "Extended LTE" announcement for Chicago. Then I'll know that when I'm in downtown I SHOULD notice much better reception when I'm indoors than I currently do (which in some cases is NONE lol). This stuff is so confusing. lol
Thanks again for all your help & info!
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The 700A that T-Mobile bought from Verizon was not available in every market including Chicago which was bought as mentioned above by Cricket (laser holdings apparently). As also mentioned above with AT&T buying Cricket (Leap) and AT&T's pension for doing things not just to make their network better but also trying to screw over the competition and especially T-Mobile they will hold on to that spectrum until the last minute until the required must sell by date even if it cost them $$ just to stick it to T-Mobile.
As for the timeline I can tell you from the experience here in Atlanta which also had the channel 51 issue which unlike some markets including Chicago and Los Angeles where the local station agreed to waive the interference restriction and allow concurrent operations the station here opted to relocate to Channel 31. From the time they agreed to relocate in September 2014 until they relocated was about 9-10 months at which time the Band 12 was turned on almost immediately here.
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stevetjr,
Well F AT&T then! lol
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Ryan , I remember a thread on here where T-Force said that Manteno,IL. wasn't going to get
upgraded to 4G/LTE and a little less than a month later it was turned on.
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This one? The specified item was not found.
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Hmm...it says that it was currently 2G but that we were working on upgrading sites to LTE
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Just announced that T-Mobile and Laser have agreed to transfer the Chicago 700A license. Because of the quite period for the 600 MHz auction, it may be EOY before the transfer is finalized. ITMT T-Mobile may "lease" the license and start building 700 MHz service.
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Awesome! Great news!! Thanks for sharing!
So how long do you think before we will start seeing better INDOOR reception while in downtown Chicago? I hope it's soon!
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There is a quiet period due to the 600MHz auction and it doesn't look like
leap was willing to do a lease then purchase when approved by the FCC like
Cavalier Holdings was.
Personally I think Leap (Laser Holdings) knew if they didn't sell it now
and T-Mobile got 600MHz in Chicago the spectrum would drop significantly in
worth since now T-Mobile who is probably the single biggest holder and
implemented 700 A block spectrum wouldn't necessarily have to have it any
more so make the deal but don't let them use it right away since that
wouldn't be what AT&T wants.
Anyway from the article I read it sounds like the soonest would be Q4 2016
before it started rolling out.
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Thanks steve!
Ok so we still have to wait but at least now we know it will be before the end of the year...................
The fourth tax quarter 2016 begins on
Saturday, October 1
and ends on
Saturday, December 31
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Well that is the plan, remember the FCC is a government institution lol. I
am sure T-Mobile will want to get it rolled out in short order once the FCC
approves since that is the last of the top 10 US markets that doesn't have
Band 12 yet
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Yeah. lol I just hope it gets done SOONER than later. So T-Mobile can finally be a "big boy" in the downtown area. lol
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/me taking off my employee hat
YIPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPY!!!
So happy for Chicago peeps.
Sounds like it doesn't close until EOY though so if things go like historically it's ***** to the wall speed which with all the stuff that's involved means normally 6-12 months. Our network guys are super human and push as hard as they can but there's equipment ordering, zoning, permitting, etc that all need to take place before a site goes on air.
I'm excited though, I love seeing more of the map colored in with low band
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