1 2 Previous Next 21 Replies Latest reply: Jun 4, 2012 6:47 AM by dirtfiend RSS

    Disappointment

      I find the specs on the new HTC One S a disappointment, and with that  Im finding it harder to find reasons to stay with tmobile.   I was so looking forward to upgrading to one of the HTC One phones more like the rumor one the HTC one X with (non)Sense UI  vanilla ICS 4.0  but what Tmobile gets is a neutered non expandable, non battery replaceable model.  Also advertising it with 16gig of storage is misleading. If it had 16 gigs of storage after accounting for the uninstallable bloatware and OS install, I find that might be plausible. but as it is that means its probably in the neighborhood of 9 -10 gigs of usable space.  I dont care about cloud storage, because if I have no internet connection that 25 gigs of dropbox storage is inaccessable. Tmobile cant do enough to guarantee I have access to that storage for them to make that an acceptable alternative to using replaceable flash cards. Every upgrade I think maybe next time they will get the top of the line, but its always tier2.

        • 1. Re: Disappointment
          philyew

          Not that it's any of my business, but it is puzzling why you want a top-shelf smartphone but have no internet access to take advantage of Dropbox?

           

          I doubt we will ever know the reason that TM choose to offer mid-tier devices rather than the top of the range, but here are some of my personal theories: 

           

          A) TM's customer base is still predominantly using basic and feature phones. Only 11 million out of 32-33 million had smartphones at the end of 2011 according to their last quarterly report. TM are looking to boost revenue by luring the majority of customers to start using data services. That means offering more modestly priced devices rather than premium models. 

           

          B) Right now TM's top manufacturing partner is Samsung and they will likely be offering the Galaxy Note and the GSIII in the coming months. They may have a deal with Samsung that they never trump the top of the line product from them with one from HTC or another source in order to get the most favorable pricing. 

           

          C) HTC are struggling right now and have been for some time. Perhaps one struggling organization (TM) doesn't want to trust its flagship device in the hands of another struggling organization. 

           

          I don't know that any of these factors alone or together explain what is going on with TM's product selection, but I do think they are more likely the reason than that TM is clueless about what they are doing in this area.

          • 2. Re: Disappointment
            dirtfiend

            This really isn't a T-Mobile thing. If you check the other carriers, you'll find the same trend occurring. (Verizon: Moto Droid Razr, AT&T HTC One X, Sprint HTC One EVO, for example) A lot of phone manufacturers want to build in obsolescence, to keep people coming back for more and not buying used. Also, there are other money making benefits to getting consumers to store their data in the cloud (especially music). If you really don't like any of this, I'd hold out until this new trend dissipates. I tried, but I chose the HTC One S for now. If you really need a device now, and you really really want storage expansion and removable battery, you could set your sights on the Verizon Incredible 3 4G. I moved from Verizon to T-Mobile though, knowing this phone was coming. T-Mobile is the underdog, and that usually spawns some extra innovation. Now that the cloud of AT&T has passed, it appears T-Mobile is back on track and trying ot turn things around. I mean, they did get the HTC One S first right? Is it a miracle device? No, but HTC wants to give you a reason to come back in 6,12,24 months and buy another that may be just a bit better.

            • 3. Re: Disappointment
              dirtfiend

              Oh, and the HTC One X for AT&T will still be pretty neutered (non expandable, non battery replaceable model). The only better part of that device is the display, which also brings worse battery life and you need troll-sized hands to manipulate it. Pick your poison there.

              • 4. Re: Disappointment

                The lack of internet access would be say traveling on a plane or subway with no wi-fi or when abroad not using data to avoid outrageous charges, I think HTC was trying to offset the puny onboard storage with cloud storage, but its no replacement. And it just so happens I have Troll hands and actually prefer a larger screen like that of the One X, Im currently on a Samsung Infuse that I rooted to work on Tmob that a friend gave me while I waited for my upgrade, minus 3g of course, after my Galaxy S2 was stolen in Cambodia, so yeah, consider me disappointed in the One line up and even more so in this middle of the road tmob release. I could deal with no external storage if it was 32gb, Ive only gotten close to filling that once, but at 8 - 10 gigs of usable space, I just cant imagine this to be considered a flagship ICS phone that Ive been patiently waiting for.

                 

                A) If Tmob wants to stop churn of its 11 million installed smartphone customer base, it needs to offer flagship phones to support those customers as well.  If you are only interested in getting basic handset people to middle of the road smartphones you risk losing one customer for every customer you upgrade to a smartphone. That is a net of zero. There is also the posibility of a net of greater negative  than zero, if you are losing the experienced data reliant smartphone user who engages in the purchases of apps, and other products those data services support. Also the HTC One X will be priced comparibly to a One S ($199.00) and I cant help but feel its an inferior phone for the same price point. HD screen twice the onboard storage.  Thats just a bad deal anyway you slice it

                 

                B) If Samsung is manipulating Tmobiles phone choices by saying you must offer inferior phones to anything but a samsung phone, that is a terrible strategy to engage in.  It basically says samsung cant compete hardware wise with any other manufacturer and has to artificially create a more advantageous to Samsung playing field. It also is a deadspot in the lineup if samsung doesnt have a current model dropping, and all you have is a lackluster field of aging tech crowding up the lineup.   I doubt this is the case as any other carrier flagship models coexist on the same shelfspace. If Tmobile cant compete with phone offerings from other big players, they will die off, and they have been dying off in droves, Ive stuck around for 10 years or so, mostly because I prefer GSM and travel alot internationallly, but at this point, Im finding hard reasons to stick around. They've made getting a hold of a representative **** near impossible with their super robo-answering machine which tells me, they dont want to talk to me, or help me out in the easiest way possible, person to person contact. The ATT deal may not have gone through, but the wounds are deep and they are hemoraging.

                 

                C) If HTC wont offer a phone they sell in all markets other than North America because they fear sending it to Tmob, Tmob and HTC have bigger problems than it appears.  It would be easy to say the One X international version is a different model than the ATT one with a tmob branded name, different processors, different capabilities, just as they did for Verizon vs ATT .  If the case is HTC doesnt want to sell as many phones as they then I guess they are on plan for that.

                • 5. Re: Disappointment
                  unclespoon

                  Sounds like you should have done your research beforehand and decided the ONE S wasn't for you!

                  • 6. Re: Disappointment
                    philyew

                    How was your GSII before it was stolen? Would you be looking to replace it now, if you still possessed it? It constituted a reasonable flagship device, didn't it?

                     

                    Apparently, there is a TM Samsung Note due to appear soon - how would that work for your "troll" hands? It was probably originally scheduled to arrive about now, considering that the other carriers have already got theirs. The point being that the "lackluster field of aging tech crowding up the lineup" is changing on a steady basis. Not long after the Note arrives, we will see a GSIII...

                     

                    I agree that it would be nice for TM to have a truly top-end device constantly available, but there have to be minimum volumes of credible sales potential for TM to order truly loaded devices and have them customized to meet their specific bandwidth constraints. As time does on and devices become inherently capable of handling all the US frequencies, TM won't suffer so badly from the need to have a uniquely engineered product, but until then, they have to have the confidence that they will be able to shift sufficient volumes of a top shelf device which will cost them more per unit than their competitors.

                     

                    The HTC One X may list retail at a comparable price to the HTC One S, but the volumes that AT&T, Verizon and even Sprint can handle are all greater than TM can do. If TM carried the X and listed it at $199, they would be taking a bigger hit than any of their competitors in terms of volume-driven wholesale price and their capacity to recover would be less because their plan and data pricing is generally lower and their margin is smaller.

                     

                    Every carrier has periods where they favor one manufacturer over the others. That isn't just making nice; it will be fuelled by longer-term marketing and pricing strategies which, for the manufacturer, will involve keeping their products front and center and, for the carrier, will mean optimized pricing. All large volume procurement has those elements. 

                     

                    I think there are a ton of problems for TM and their customers, don't get me wrong, but I still think that thereare some considered business reasons for the available product range, and it's not just a matter of TM being out of touch with its customer base.

                    • 7. Re: Disappointment
                      philyew

                      I think he has done his research, hasn't bought the One S and doesn't find anything currently available to fill the gap.

                      • 8. Re: Disappointment

                        How was your GSII before it was stolen? Would you be looking to replace it now, if you still possessed it? It constituted a reasonable flagship device, didn't it?

                         

                           -Reasonable effective and fit my needs. I may nitpick a little, but I really want ICS, and anytime Ive gotten a phone with the promise of a *future update, another source of my disappointment is the slowness of their promised upgrades, experienced also with the Samsung Vibrant. I think it trumps the One S in usability, but not on performance.  But its kinda like driving a dragster to work.  It might get you there fast, but its uncomfortable and its hard to pick up groceries on the way home. Performance wise its right up there at the top, but I want to carry lots of groceries, Im a troll I eat a lot. I use my phone everyday as an mp3 player in my car and at work and while traveling I watch movies to kill time. even carry multiple flash cards to keep me entertained  Just expressing my discontent with the availibility of the phones.  10 years of service, and a lot of loyalty and I look over to the other carriers and Im seeing a lot of phones that fit my needs better, and Im frustrated by what I see is a lack of a fully featured phone.  Ive got an upgrade waiting on me, and Im frustrated with the lack of speed on my rooted Infuse thats pretty much useless for data outside of wifi. (also broke the screen after an elephant mistook it for sugarcane in Thailand) Ive got phone problems in south east asia. :-) ) so Ive paitently waited to see what stuff popped up this spring, and just not seeing what I thought I would, suppose I keep thinking Tmobile to make a splash with some hardware awesomeness and it just keeps coming up short in my book.  Maybe I expect too much. and the thought of going big blue makes my stomach churn, but their hardware seems more compelling.

                        • 9. Re: Disappointment
                          dirtfiend

                          No, I agree. You definately have a valid point. I felt the same way though, and that is why I left Verizon. Unfortunately, T-Mobile just doesn't have that level of subscribership to control the direction of the manufacturers, so they'll need to start getting creative. What about something like this instead for now, unlocked and contract free?

                           

                          https://play.google.com/store/devices/details?id=galaxy_nexus_hspa

                          • 10. Re: Disappointment
                            dirtfiend

                            Of course that is only 16GB with no SD slot. Sad.

                            • 11. Re: Disappointment

                              Yeah..well honestly I'd be more apt to get that on no contract so im not locked in for 2 years on a phone that didn't fit me..and could probably recoup money on the secondary market barring any shenanigans in south east Asia. It would actually come out to a pretty cheap phone on the long run.

                              • 12. Re: Disappointment

                                It seems that the smartphone market is cluttered right now and there are many ways for anyone to buy a phone unlocked or even a used phone with decent specs. They created this mess with coming out with newer devices so fast. Lots of people bought a device and then bought the next best thing (which is was for a time) and then sold the previous device. This leaves out any new sales for the carriers and the mfg's have to slow down production on more of the next best thing. Just a theory. We have seen a slow down in higher end devices since the GS2. How many phones out there now have a quad core processor running ICS? How many have 2GB of RAM and HD screens? Not too many and the thought is that there are still many good choices with dual core and non HD Screens with plenty of memory (1GB) that is sufficient for the average user. Also, as someone pointed out, there are still many people that haven't made the change to a smartphone yet. I'm sure you can find lot of GS2's that are used online at a good price and as we know the GS2 is a great device that has technology that is still fairly current.

                                • 13. Re: Disappointment

                                  Im sure you can find alot of things on the secondary market, that wasnt the point in being decidely disappointed in the phone that Tmob is pitching as a "flagship phone."  I could just buy the one X internationl unlocked and be done with it, I probably wont, but I could.  What I do care about as a long term user of Tmob, I invest lots and lots of money to pay for the services I receive from them, Ive had no problem with them minus the usual customer service juggling associated with any CSR phone jockeys that pick up my call.  As a loyal user, I want Tmobile to be successful, to be a top of the line provider of wireless services. For me, that makes my service better, that makes your service better, and that provides us as comsumers with better products.  Every monthly payment I make, I expect a portion of that to be reinvested into them building a stronger service/product for me, and you.  When they make middle of the road choices with what phones they are bringing here, ect, they are telling me they have no faith that we the users want need or can use highend devices.  They are a subsidiary of Deutche Telekom, have a huge global footprint, and have these high end devices in their european market places.  I am unwilling to believe that they cannot leverage the strength of the parent company, the parent company has tried hard to divest itself of the Tmob USA problem for years, even before the ATT deal.  When you play for fourth place you stay in fourth place. There seems to be no interest in competing with the big 3, and I believe its a disservice to we the consumers that have chosen to stick with the tmob even though the rats have been jumping overboard.  You can talk up your network speeds and size but if nobody is there to use it, will anybody care. So yes I was eager to see what tmobile was going to bring to market , I was eager to sign on the dotted line to extend me to 12 years of tmobile service, and eager to have a tmob branded flagship phone, this aint it, still disappointed, and yes it means I will probably buy a phone on the secondary market, it doesnt make me any less disppointed that Tmob is treading water neck deep and its lifelines are are about 6 inches out of reach and the water is still rising.  I think phone development suffered from the android tablet rush, the fracturing once again of Android releases, and phone manufactuers jumping into the tablet market. Fine, you gotta go after another market and compete with Apple again, but the the roadmap is clear, you just have yet to see tmobile being daring enough to try to take on the challenge of being a market leader in service, equipment and performance. They seem to be fine with driving behind everyone else and scavaging the discards of the the leaders and telling everybody look at us, we too can make a commercial that uses some statistically insigificant claim of biggest and fastest network. If their goal is to convert their large subscription of non smartphone users to become smartphone users, I would question the why focus there.  There is a large contingent, possibly even a majority that dont want need or can afford smartphones. What were they waiting on oh nooow Im on the android bandwagon now that they have one called Ice Cream Sandwhich, that sounds tasty, and frankly I just dont like gingerbread. If they arent on a smartphone, there is a good reason they aren't. The same reason there will still be a large collection of people that dont want need or have internet. My mom being one of those.  and god help any CSR that has to deal with her if she ever gets a smartphone.  I have enough problems walking her through sending an email. The focus should be on providing the bleeding edge to the users who are most capable of utilizing the technology, most likely to adopt new tech, most likely to provide tmob with those nice basically free charges for using their awesome rocketship fast ginormous bigger than the rest "4g" network.   Their focus shouldnt be on converting someone that has yet to find a need for a smartphone, but the nerd herd that drools over specs and have the enthuisasim and need for the devices, to draw those nerd herds from other carriers, and support the ones who are willingly paying for the network, not the ones you are trying to talk into the shallow end of the pool.  But remember, no more Mr. Nice girl, wait here is a "nice" phone, nice middle of the road, nice pink dress of the next wave of awesome missle guiding retina melting world changing, panda saving ICS phones that will be dropping in the next wave in the android arms race.  Hoping there is more to come from Mr. Pink.

                                  • 14. Re: Disappointment
                                    philyew

                                    Are TM really pitching the One S as "a flagship phone"? I don't see it myself, neither in the way it is marketed on the TM web site nor the way it is being talked up around the TM-friendly blogosphere.

                                     

                                    Frankly it would be a serious mistake to put a lot of energy into marketing a flagship device which will be shot full of holes by the launch of a rival device (the Samsung GS III) within days of it arriving in TM stores.

                                     

                                    Instead, the One S is being pushed as the best so far for TM in 2012.

                                     

                                    According to TmoNews, which has a reasonable instinct for these things, TM will see the GSIII and quite possibly the Galaxy Note and the HTC One X as well, as the year progresses.

                                     

                                    The real flagship devices (take your pick from that possible array) will be reserved to counteract the launch of the iPhone 5.

                                     

                                    I agree that playing for fourth place is a recipe for failure, but I actually think that TM's strategy through much of 2008-10 was a genuine attempt to play for 3rd spot.

                                     

                                    Deutsche Telekom had a long term intention throughout that period of strengthening their position so that a merger with Sprint would have been financially advantageous to them. Unfortunately, the strategy failed and they failed to make up any significant ground on the smaller of their competitors. As a result the value of TM to Sprint never reached the amount needed by DT to make a dignified exit from the US market. Hence the need to respond positively to the offer from AT&T.

                                     

                                    When you have to maintain a national network footprint with comparable services, despite carrying less than 35% of the customer base of your biggest rivals, it is always going to be difficult (read impossible) to be able to compete convincingly on every front. They simply cannot exercise the same market leverage as any of the top three carriers when it comes to device portfolio, and that is made doubly difficult by their enforced dependence on AWS spectrum which demands that they always have had to have a custome-built device from each iteration of hardware.

                                     

                                    I think that you are absolutely mistaken when you say that "their focus shouldnt be on converting someone that has yet to find a need for a smartphone". On the contrary, the biggest margin they can expect in the future will come from the sale of data services, and given that they currently have over 20 million customers who have yet to take up those data services, their biggest growth potential comes from teasing that group progressively into becoming data consumers. You don't do that by trying to sell them the biggest, baddest, and best Android hardware.

                                     

                                    As much as it may peeve us high-tech afficionados, the low-to-mid-range Android devices that are offered by TM are probably the best fit to encourage feature phone users to dip their toes in the smartphone pool. Every so often, TM will refresh the high end to hold onto the committed users as much as possible, but they will always use those devices tactically to resist their biggest external challenges, which this year will come from the iPhone 5.

                                     

                                     

                                     


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