I completely agree. We do have customers such as yourself who support us with a passion, but are also tired of hearing **** from other carriers and other customers. Trust me, I know. As a customer before employee I dealt with it then, and I do now. We thank you for being an advocate for us and we do want to provide that victory to you. I know the new marketing campaign is awesome, but then to have Samsung release that is like you said, feels like a slap in the face and a step backward. But we will stay strong and work to get that victory, not only for you, but for all of our customers in one form or another. I have provided this entire conversation as feedback so that we can review how our customers feel about this statement and lack of information pertaining to the ICS update and what Sami devices will be getting it.
Again, thank you and all your contributions are appreciated.
The only device that the Google AOSP release will run on is the development device. Every single other device will require a period of effort from the manufacturer to customize the software to work with each specific device targeted for update. Until that is done, nothing will come near the carriers for testing.
Given that TM alone has 25 4G devices that need to be supported, how many individual devices will each manufacturer have to support?
They will never release the update for any of the US variants before they release for the international version of each device. In fact, very possibly they won't start on the US variants until they have largely nailed the international version, so that they are working off the optimum core build.
As long as Google release more than one major update a year, the manufacturers and carriers will struggle. Even if the frquency drops to a more reasonable pace, companies like TM that are struggling with their revenue will have to make hard decisions about priorities for where to spend their money. OS updates may not always be a high priority.
As far as what is involved to make it happen it is mostly transparent to most end users. It should be apparent by now by Samung and or Tmobile that getting these updates done in a timely manner is what counts to customer that plunked down good money on a device. When this update is finally sent the GS3 will be out and when people by the GS3 pretty soon after that Jellybean will be out, and yet another long awaited update for that device. It's important that the displeasure is heard by the bosses (the customer). Again, if more time is involved and it's a huge undertaking for the mfg/carriers then getter better prepared. Samsung makes huge profits on these devices and if working with the carriers requires some transferring of funds to get it done then maybe that is what's required. Yes, there are many devices that need support and I'm sure it's a huge mind blowing task, however the GS2 was touted as a huge release for Samsung/Tmobile and the same holds true for the GS3 when it is available. They can only improve with the comments provided by the customers. Maybe it's more on Googles end with the delays and they need to get more help with working with the mfg's/carriers. I can see your point and it makes sense but again, it falls under the excuses and no resolutions. When management reads the feedback that will make them realize there is displeasure and what needs to be done to correct it. Google and Samsungs profits are enormous. It can be improved on how they update their devices.
You assume that everyone who spent money on one of these smartphones is eager to get the update, but all the indicators suggest otherwise. The depth of your conviction does not translate across the board and there are probably approaching 30 million of TM's 32-33 million customers who have no strong feeling on the matter at all, with over 20 million of them not even owning a smartphone.
So, if TM are running their business properly, they will take care of the priorities that impact the majority of their customers, while keeping a close eye on and responding as necessary to issues that may have a disproportionate impact on their overall business. Thus, OS updates will be addressed, but not necessarily to the extent or at the pace that the OS enthusiasts demand.
This reasoning is only an excuse and not a resolution, if the priority of your expectations is elevated to be the prevailing view of the majority. However, I would argue that, while this may well be your strongly held conviction, it is a long way from being the prevailing view of the majority.
Well we will find out in good time if this will come back to hurt sales for Samsung. Are all carriers guilty of failing to provide timely updates? Also, what would be an industry standard for a timely update? Also, with the speed of technology it's unfortunate that the customers expect updates to fly out as fast as new devices do, however that's not the case. I just read that one user sold their GS2 on EBay yesterday and is switching to HTC One S. HTC also has had their share of hardware issues. It's the nature of the business and it's tough. We also have had some customers receive bad GS2 phones with battery/freezing/random reboot issues. No technology is perfect and If this phone doesn't get an update so be it. I'm ok with it. It's just bad business practice when a new device is about to launch and they still have not taken care of the previous one with an update. This debate can go as good as which came first the chicken or the egg?
It can indeed go on and on.
My view is that, with the product range updated by TM every quarter (in response to customer demands and the need to keep competitive with the other providers) and Google chucking out two updates in every 12 month period, there are ALWAYS going to be clashes between update schedules and new product releases and, if you look at it from the narrow PoV that old devices should be taken care of before new ones are marketed, then it will be a constant and unavoidable fail.
There will always be examples of people who make the kind of change that you describe, but they are not representative of the majority of users.
Throughout the history of the Android platform there has always been a significant number of devices in the USA that have been one or two OS versions behind the current release. Back at the beginning of 2011, if I recall correctly, there were around 30 devices from different manufacturers across all the carriers that could have been updated to the current release of Android, but only about 7 had been.
As I keep saying: the model is broken. The problem is, it's hard to see how it can be fixed without Google morphing into another Apple...But even then, their own attempts to control the supply chain with their own branded devices hasn't been an overwhelming success in terms of timely updates.
I personally think the only viable course is to put a price on the update and sell it to people who really want it. Then there is a specific revenue and contractual obligation to underpin both the expectations and the delivery.
I don't necessarily think to only put more emphasis on previous devices with updating them and not focusing on new devices. Why can't both be done effectively and a company still be able to meet new device launch dates and still be profitable? Aren't these companies large enough and profitable enough to pull this off? It's about saving money and that's understandable from a business perspective. The customer is the boss and dictates what a company should offer and if it not realistic then that needs to be communicated well with their customer base. We can go on about marketing and this and that highs and lows of companies and operating systems but it comes down to one simplistic back to the basics method. Listen to the customers! I don't think Samsung is very good at that.
Anyway, they did mention the first quarter for the update to ICS. As we head into May the year will be almost half over and into the 2nd quarter. They should not mention any projected or estimated date for an update if they can't meet it. It's as simple as that gets. Again, if it's not realistic don't tell your customers anything even if it's a very soft projected date. It puts a bad taste in your mouth. I do like the GS2 and like I've mentioned , if it never gets updated so be it and it's ok. I just don't know if I'll buy another Samsung device. You see lots of this on other forums about their lack of communication with their customers. It may also be Google as part of this also. There are lots of players and variables that come into play and that's understandable. Life has disappointments sometimes and that's expected. It's good to see other points of view on this.
Also, there are only four major device mfg's in the US that are strong in the market. They are Samsung, HTC, Motorola, and Apple. Sure, Nokia and Sony are out there but they were larger before the smartphone days. These manufacturers realize that there are millions of people that need devices and they are going to sell millions regardless if they update their devices in a timely manner or not. It's a form of monopoly with the device manufacturers. If there were 8 or 10 true players you would see these companies working faster at updates because market share would possibly become unbalanced and weigh in towards one or two better manufacturers.
I refuse to believe that an harmonious eco system can't coexist between Hardware releases and software updates. I remember at one point in time reading an article stating ( and I'll find the article and post it later) that Samsung was reaching out to the developer community. What happened to that?
The Developer Community can be Samsung/T-Mobile's personal saviors. Reach out to these dedicated volunteers and pioneers to get these updates out. Let them do the bulk of the work for you. Give them the ROMs' and drivers for the devices that you are struggling with and let them work their magic. Put them on the payroll. Make them sign the legal mumbo-jumbo not to release these ROMs. And speed up the process, find bugs and glitches, testing T-Mobile software. Now you can get your head back into the game and out of the other orifice.
If you find that article please post it. I wonder how long ago that was. I would imagine there are many capable testers out there. Just like EA Sports has people testing the games out. They hire them for a lower wage and many are college students.
dandrews1138 wrote: As far as other devices that already have ICS? HTC VividHTC SensationHTC Sensation XEHTC Velocity 4GAcer Iconia Tab A200Archos 80 G9Archos 101 G9Asus Eee Pad TransformerAsus Transformer PrimeMotorola XoomSamsung Nexus S That's a partial list. You should see the UK version, with dozens of devices. It really sucks that thanks to our totally lousy government departments making the decisions, the rest of the world is ALWAYS ahead of us when it comes to electronic devices. Incidentally, I'm not just blaming T-Mobile. In general, I like T-Mobile, even though this has been a bit of a cluster f**k. Samsung was late on the mark as well, with other manufactures jumping on board earlier. With ANY computer-based product of ANY kind, the beta OSes are always available well before release to developers and manufacturers. Since it was released 6 months ago, Samsung should have begun work on this a year ago WELL before the final version of ICS even came out. They should already be working with Google on Android 5 right now.
As far as other devices that already have ICS?
HTC Sensation XE
HTC Velocity 4G
Acer Iconia Tab A200
Archos 80 G9
Archos 101 G9
Asus Eee Pad Transformer
Asus Transformer Prime
Samsung Nexus S
That's a partial list. You should see the UK version, with dozens of devices. It really sucks that thanks to our totally lousy government departments making the decisions, the rest of the world is ALWAYS ahead of us when it comes to electronic devices.
Incidentally, I'm not just blaming T-Mobile. In general, I like T-Mobile, even though this has been a bit of a cluster f**k. Samsung was late on the mark as well, with other manufactures jumping on board earlier. With ANY computer-based product of ANY kind, the beta OSes are always available well before release to developers and manufacturers. Since it was released 6 months ago, Samsung should have begun work on this a year ago WELL before the final version of ICS even came out. They should already be working with Google on Android 5 right now.
The HTC Sensation that has received the ICS update is not the US version. Check the HTC Sensation section on the T-Mobile forum to find a thread that is almost identical to this one. There are no other US Sensations, so the HTC Sensation XE doesn't count either.
The Motorola XOOM Wi-fi has received the ICS update, but not the XOOM 4G.
The Samsung Nexus S started receiving the update, but it was halted due to customer concerns about post-update device performance. I heard that the update started rolling out again, but I'm not sure. I was in the first wave and yes, I had problems.
I only touched on the devices from your list that I have personal knowledge of. Maybe I do have a bad phone habit.
Wow, interesting discussion!
I also saw the Endgadget article this morning while walking the dog (and reading my phone).
I figured I'd get ICS soon enough, but now am very much inclined to think I'll never get it. Anyway, I've recently rooted the device and done a Titanium backup. I have already started getting rid of the Crapware (Messaging, Media Hub, Music Hub, TMobile Video Chat, TMobile Mall...)
Who knows, maybe cyanogen is in my future for this computer.
(On the bright side, my shiny new Samsung Galaxy Tab 7 2.0 with ICS should arrive today.)
You know? I'm kinda hoping more people quit T-Mobile to send the message. But also, as long as T-Mobile isn't #1 for anything they will keep trying harder and offering better deals.
I have matured to a certain perspective that doesn't allow me to want to "finance" my phones through the carriers any longer. Moving forward, I'm just going to start buying my phones unlocked and generic so that it works with whatever carrier I want. This way I won't be required to spend money on data plans and all that other nonsense. Just give me WiFi for data and phone service. That's all I need.
T-Mobile hasn't lost me as a customer, but they have shown me that my money is better spent in other ways and on devices that other parties offer.
We've had a lot of posts about if and when the Samsung Galaxy S II will get the Ice Cream Sandwich update. To ensure we have all the information in the same place, we are locking down all threads and redirecting everyone to the main discussion ICS update for the T-Mobile Galaxy S II.
We also have some more information about Android software updates in Software updates for Android.
Thank you for your understanding!
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