13 Replies Latest reply: Apr 25, 2012 2:07 PM by tmo_ian RSS

Ice Cream Sandwich April 22 for S2

two
  • 1. Re: Ice Cream Sandwich April 22 for S2
    two

    Not on KIES for me. Anyone else? According to a person in the comments on the article, he is updating his phone to ICS through Kies.

  • 2. Re: Ice Cream Sandwich April 22 for S2

    I'm afraid I wouldn't even know how to update via Kies. Is there a tutorial on how to do this?

  • 3. Re: Ice Cream Sandwich April 22 for S2
    two

    It looks like it is for Europe. Hopefully soon for the U. S.

  • 5. Re: Ice Cream Sandwich April 22 for S2

    T-Mobile outside of the US can be motivated to update the software on their customer's phones to keep them happy.  But T-Mobile within the US cannot.  T-Mobile-US operates in a different arena with different motives and different methods at their disposal.

     

    Want an upgrade?  Wait for the SGS3 and get it in a form which is not carrier branded.  You will get a nice handheld computer which will get more updates more frequently.  Data speeds may be lower, but I pretty much use WiFi everywhere I go so it doesn't matter all that much whether I get the expensive 4G (really 3.5G) performance... don't pay for it and save a lot more money.

     

    (Turns out when you buy a handheld computer like SGS2 or SGS3 from a carrier, they require a long term contract and an expensive data plan... at least in the US where that type of bundling is allowed and not considered "anti-trust" just yet.  Anti-trust laws prohibit agreements in restraint of trade, monopolization and attempted monopolization, anticompetitive mergers and tie-in schemes, and, in some circumstances, price discrimination in the sale of commodities.  I would say "subsidized phones" in exchange for expensive data plans and long-term requirements fits the definition of Anti-trust pretty well.)

  • 6. Re: Ice Cream Sandwich April 22 for S2
    smplyunprdctble

    erroneus wrote:

     

    T-Mobile outside of the US can be motivated to update the software on their customer's phones to keep them happy.  But T-Mobile within the US cannot.  T-Mobile-US operates in a different arena with different motives and different methods at their disposal.

     

    Want an upgrade?  Wait for the SGS3 and get it in a form which is not carrier branded.  You will get a nice handheld computer which will get more updates more frequently.  Data speeds may be lower, but I pretty much use WiFi everywhere I go so it doesn't matter all that much whether I get the expensive 4G (really 3.5G) performance... don't pay for it and save a lot more money.

     

    (Turns out when you buy a handheld computer like SGS2 or SGS3 from a carrier, they require a long term contract and an expensive data plan... at least in the US where that type of bundling is allowed and not considered "anti-trust" just yet.  Anti-trust laws prohibit agreements in restraint of trade, monopolization and attempted monopolization, anticompetitive mergers and tie-in schemes, and, in some circumstances, price discrimination in the sale of commodities.  I would say "subsidized phones" in exchange for expensive data plans and long-term requirements fits the definition of Anti-trust pretty well.)

    Then don't buy subsidized phones.  You DO have a choice.

  • 7. Re: Ice Cream Sandwich April 22 for S2

    That argument didn't work for Microsoft where they charged various prices for their OS and Office products depending on how they were bundled and all that.  They still got hauled into court... in the US and in other countries.  It's only a matter of time, but the US carriers will continue getting away with it as long as they are complying with government requests for spying and voice/daa interception.

  • 8. Re: Ice Cream Sandwich April 22 for S2
    smplyunprdctble

    Subsidization means they're going to get something for giving you a discount.

     

    Think the days of AOL -- you could get a subsidized computer by agreeing to a 2-year commitment with AOL.  That 2-year commitment cost more than the subsidization provided.

     

    Or, you could get an unsubsidized computer.

     

     

    The same thing is happening here.  You can get a subsidized phone by agreeing to a 2-year commitment with a data plan [or without for non-smartphones, which have a significantly lower subsidization], OR you can outright pay for it and have no commitment extension AND no data requirement.

     

    Similar concept.

     

    VZW even allows this, and a 2-year commitment isn't even required.  (I haven't done enough research on AT&T and Sprint to see if they do that)

     

     

    (Note, I don't agree with the 2-year commitment with the VALUE plans.  But, then again, VZW doesn't give you a discount on the plan if you buy your device outright, so you're TECHNICALLY getting a deal....)

  • 9. Re: Ice Cream Sandwich April 22 for S2

    But here's a catch that few are registering.  The radios and the phones.  Yeah, you can get basic GSM, but not necessarily any higher performance data when you bring a foreign phone into T-Mobile's network... or any of the US carrier networks.  Their signalling is often just different enough that basic compatibility is there, but advanced features and functionality may be blocked.  In my case, it doesn't matter so much, but for some, it's a rather important matter.

     

    What I am saying is that if you bought a phone from another source and tried to bring it into the T-Mobile network, due to certain levels of proprietary radios and all that, you can't get the top levels of service from T-Mobile unless you buy a phone from them... a phone which is over-priced unless you buy into their subsidy program which pays for the phone several times over.

     

    And soon, "stolen phones" will also be blocked from the networks in the US and I get this sneaky feeling they will use that to block phones where a customer stopped paying or otherwise terminated early.

     

    What I am getting at is the carrier has the ability to limit or even block phones of their choosing.  Back in the day when Bell Telephone was broken up, they too thought they could restrict what phones were used on their networks and it ended up with the company's breakup and lots of regulation.  Today, it's kind of there again isn't it.  Slowly, things have gotten better, but you still won't be able to get the top tiers of service without buying their equipment... and buying it unsubsidized and unlocked may not be available -- it's at their discretion.

  • 10. Re: Ice Cream Sandwich April 22 for S2
    smplyunprdctble

    It's "over-priced" whether you buy it from T-Mobile or one of the US competitors.

     

    Sure, there's deals -- but those deals are generally people who sign up, get a phone, wait 15 days, and pay an ETF -- essentially total cost around $400 -- they sell it for $500 and make a profit and do it again.

     

    There's deals out there for US company phones if you hunt.

     

    I don't like the "limitations" either based on carrier with proprietary antennas.  I like the concept in Asia where you can go out and buy any phone you want and any SIM you want and it works.  Don't like your provider, buy a new SIM.  But, they're paying "full price" for their phones.  And, yes, "full price" is cheaper because there's competition in the manufacturers to get their product out and there's a separate competition in the providers for the plans.

     

     

    Unfortunately, we live in the US where proprietary is a way of life.

     

     

    And a "stopped paying" phone is technically a 'stolen' phone because you didn't pay the agreement.  I see that as a valid reason for blocking the IMEI.  "otherwise terminating" (aka paying ETF) completes the contract therefore should not be blocked.

  • 11. Re: Ice Cream Sandwich April 22 for S2

    But that's just it.  We're talking about using a "leased from the public" wireless spectrum which is officially owned by us, the public as represented by the FCC and they take it and do things which harm the public interest.  It was precisely the public interest angle which resulted in the Bell breakup.

     

    As for "proprietary" goes, they shouldn't be allowed to do that either.  They are using these means to control and limit the customer and to control and limit competition.  I can source phones from other parts of the world to prove that the phones in the US are unfairly inflated and that they are engaged in what amounts to price fixing.

     

    All of this is arguably illegal behavior.  The problem is getting the FCC and Justice department to act on these things.  The FCC has helped some in this regard, but it's still essentially as bad as it ever was.  (That you can take an AT&T iPhone and use it on T-Mobile is a bit miraculous.)

     

    And no, the cost of the phone is the cost of the phone even if it's subsidized.  There isn't a "partial phone payment" item on your phone bill.  You OWN the phone completely and entirely.  It's not a lease agreement.  It's a purchase and it is complete.  It only resembles a financing arrangement, but it is certainly not a financing arrangement.  So no, they shouldn't be allowed to consider a phone purchased through a subsidy plan to be stolen if the terms of the agreement are not met.  They would need to change the terms to accomplish that and for it to be a stolen phone, the phone company would have to maintain and ownership interest in the device to make it stick which, of course, brings in a broad range of complications for them.

     

    If you dig into what they are doing, a lot of it comes out looking pretty shady.  Just because "they all do it" doesn't make it right or completely legal.  It would have to be brought to a judge to determine all of that, of course and since the telcos are generously cooperating the the DHS and other 3-letter agencies complete with "retroactive immunity" I get the feeling the government does not want things to change for now.  (It took a LOT of work just to stop the AT&T buyout and even when it was proven that AT&T was lying, there were congressmen and senators screaming to let the deal go through.)

     

    It's ugly.... very very ugly.  And you and I and everyone else are supporting it and without much we can do.  After all, to live in today's world, you have to have a mobile phone.  It used to be that a phone was enough, but now it's gotta be mobile because the expectations of the world is that we are reachable at any time in any location.  That makes the mobile carriers as much of a utility as landline services and they should be regulated as such.

  • 12. Re: Ice Cream Sandwich April 22 for S2
    theartiszan

    I think we have left out and need to learn more about what wireless subsides are.

    When you buy a phone outright you are paying the 500$ of the phone cost.

    Then it is outright yours.

    If you get the subsidized 200$ that comes with the agreement that you will complete 2 years of service. So that phone is not completely yours until you either finish your contract or pay ETF fee.

    While there is no line item that says your phone charge for equipment is "x" you are paying slightly elevated prices per month so the carrier makes back the cost of equipment and then makes profit after about the one year mark depending on phone purchased.

  • 13. Re: Ice Cream Sandwich April 22 for S2
    tmo_ian

    Hey everyone!

     

    We've had a lot of posts about if and when the Samsung Galaxy S II will get the Ice Cream Sandwich update. To ensure we have all the information in the same place, we are locking down all threads and redirecting everyone to the main discussion ICS update for the T-Mobile Galaxy S II.

     

    We also have some more information about Android software updates in Software updates for Android.

     

    Thank you for your understanding!

     

    - Ian